Bastardo vs. Peavy

bastardo.jpgTonight’s game at Petco Park has some intrigue to it.

Phillies rookie Antonio Bastardo, who is taking Brett Myers‘ place in the rotation, faces Padres ace Jake Peavy, who the Phillies would like to take Myers’ place in the rotation (Roy Halladay or Roy Oswalt wouldn’t be bad, either).

It is true Peavy is a long shot to come to Philadelphia, but that does not mean the Phillies aren’t interested. We’ve been over this before. The Phillies and Padres would have to agree on the talent to be exchanged for Peavy, which is not easy. The Phillies would have to decide if they can take on the remaining $63 million on Peavy’s contract — no small task considering the Phillies have nearly $100 committed to a handful of players next season. And, oh, Peavy would have to waive his no-trade clause to make it happen, and there are indications he would be unwilling to do that.

But who knows? Maybe Peavy can’t work a trade to one of his preferred teams (Cubs, Dodgers) and has to think to himself, “Either I stay with the Padres, where they’ll have to cut payroll elsewhere, or I go to Philadelphia for three years.”

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The Phillies optioned John Mayberry Jr. to Triple-A Lehigh Valley to make room for Bastardo. The Phillies want Mayberry to play everyday. When the Phillies activate J.C. Romero after tonight’s game, I imagine left-hander Sergio Escalona will be headed back to the Minors.

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The Pen – the reality series featuring the Phillies bullpen – debuts Sun., June 14 @ 8 pm on MLB Network.

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48 Comments

Doesn’t this mean that the phillies will have 13 pitchers? Hamels, Moyer, Branton, Happ and Bastardo as starters; Lidge, Romero, Durbin, madson, Park, Condrey,Taschner, eyre? This means a 4 man bench. With one of those Coste who is the back up catcher, we only have stairs, Dobbs and Brunlett. I guess they don’t feel they need a RHB any more

Something completely off-track, but relative to your mentioning of the payroll figures…

With a burgeoning payroll, big players to sign and limited means of income (they already sell-out every game) do you think the Phillies will try to find new income by implementing some sort of pay-TV for their games? I’m guessing it’s either that or some sort of seat license for the season holders.

Whatever they do, I can’t imagine them going along the route of having a high payroll and not eventually asking us to help them foot the bill.

Am I being too cynical or unrealistic, or is there something to my question?

I had the feeling that Taschner might not stay long once Romero comes back.

Speaking of the bullpen, have you seen The ‘Pen, Todd? For those of us without MLB Network, will there be any way to watch the series after it airs?

Is Taschner still on this team? What’s the point?

Still wants to knw who we let go to make room for tht much needed RHB? not to mention WTH will he be? Ideas, rumors, trades etc?

Oh well, he needs to hit everyday and that’s not going to happen in the majors right now. When Romero returns I hope they send Taschner packing instead of Escalona.

And muleman, I don’t think you have to worry about that kind of thing, high payroll or not.

Phylan, I’m hopeful that as soon as we get teh famed RHB he’s gone. Given this here’s no point in keeping sergio with the team for a few extra days/weeks when he won’t get much work. Better to have him in AAA pitching 2-3 times a week

When Romero comes back they could easily send down both Taschner (I believe he has an option left) and Escalona. They will have two solid lefties in the ‘pen anyway and they really need another righthanded bat. I have to believe that Reuben is working hard to get one this week, especially since they sent down Mayberry.

Yeah phan52 that’d probably be the way to go. I think Ruben is probably prioritizing a starter more than a RHB right now, though.

He sent down Mayberry because he was sitting and he wanted 14 pitchers for the West coast, especially since Lidge cant pitch tonight (4 straight days) One interesting thing is the following numbers:

Through the first 39 games of the season, the team ERA was 5.33.
in the last 10 games, the team ERA was 3.65
That’s twice throuh the rotation with a very nice ERA. I’d hold off on making a move on a SP so quickly. Assuming that they get though this road trip with decent pitching (under 4.00 ERA) I we can definately go with what we have and look redoing the rotation for next year. No point in making moves just to say you made a move

I agree f-i-j. They are going to find out what they have in Happ, Bastardo, Carrasco and Drabek before they sell out for a pitcher. There is plenty of time, especially considering how the starters have settled down.
The RHB is the priority at this time. They don’t have to worry about Lidge or the bullpen for the next couple of days because they got a good start out of Blanton last night and Madson is available to close. 14 pitchers is unnecessary IMO.

Maybe I’m missing someone, but isn’t it 13 pitchers now that Myers is on the DL? I think it will continue to be 13 when Romero gets back, since they’ll probably send Escalona down.

Seriously though, a pitcher is the more urgent concern. I think a lot of people are putting way to much faith in Moyer, the ML readiness of the young talent (although I am excited to watch Bastardo), and the likelihood that Blanton keeps providing solid outings. Ruben has said repeatedly they are going to go after pitching, he and Charlie have said it should be a front of the rotation guy, so why are we pretending it’s not an issue right now? Myers isn’t coming back.

Hamels, Moyer, Branton, Happ and Bastardo as starters; Lidge, Romero, Durbin, madson, Park, Condrey,Taschner, eyrem, and they still have sergio on the roster. That’s 14 Phylan

They don’t have 14 pitchers on their roster. Right now they have Hamels, Moyer, Blanton, Happ and Bastardo as starters. Their righties in the pen are Condrey, Durbin, Park, and Madson. Their leftties are Taschner, Escalona, and Eyre, and Lidge is the closer.
That’s 13 pitchers. Like Todd said in his article, it’s more than likely that the Phils’ will option Escalona to the Minors when Romero is ready to come back, which means they will still only have 13 pitchers on their roster. =D
And after tonight’s game, what need am I going to have for my Free JC! T-shirt?

You are so right. My HUGE mistake. I forgot that Romero isn’t activated yet, though he traveled with the team to the coast and is available as of tomorrow. Be interesting to see if they send Sergio or Taschner down. I bet Sergio as well as his pitching time will be severly limited once Romero is back. I still want to see them get down to 12 pitchers and get a RHB, though

The Phillies have plenty of time to resolve the rotation issues. I’m fine with them staying in-house for now to see if one of the kids can get it done. But I’m not fooling myself that this rotation will serve them well in the postseason. Who is their #2 starter? They have a huge gap there. At some point they are going to have to go after either Peavy, Oswalt or Halladay. And don’t get upset when the names Drabek, Brown and Taylor get bandied about. It is going to take one of those guys to be the cornerstone of any trade for an impact starter. Nobody out there will take Marson and/or Donald as a centerpiece. They are additions to any trade. It’s going to take one of the gems of the system to get it done.
I don’t want the likes of Jason Marquis; I want a top of the rotation guy. I say, when the Jays fade in the AL East, go hard at Halladay. JMO.

Yeah, I agree on both counts. Rube won’t rush into anything, especially since he’ll get better value closer to the trade deadline and until then he can do this pitching by committee sort of thing with our young talent. And when he is ready to pull the trigger, it’s not going to be for a 4th starter.

Phan52: I keep remembering Marty Bystom. He never amounted to much, but in 1980 he was our number 2 pitcher in Aug/Sept/Oct goin 5-0 and winning game 1 of the WS. We have no idea what any of these kids will end up doing. If you are serriously going to go after one of the “Aces” out there it is going to cost you 15 million a year +, two of your “can’t miss” prospects, and perhaps one of your starting 8. Can we afford this? Not only personel wise, (are you ready for mayberrry as the starting right firelder, or Marson as the regular C?) but it will effect who we can bring back next year from this team as well. Acording to Dave Murphy, we have 100 million locked up next year on seven regulars, two starters and three relievers . Add to that the 15 million to get the pitcher, and you have (assuming a 5% increase in salaries over this year) 21 million to spend on 2 starters, 1 reguar, 4 relievers and the bench. That’s not enough to bring back the curent team. Is an “Ace” worth the cost? you tell me

Marty Bystrom came up in September and went 5-0, but was not eleigible for post-season play in 1980. He certainly did not pitch in the WS. I am willing to see what the kids can do, but there is no doubt that they do not have a #2 pitcher after Hamels. This team is built for now so we need to get after it in the next three years. The Phillies farm system is actually pretty deep so I say, yes, bust a move.
Taylor and Brown should be the centerpiece of a trade for an ‘ace’. They do not have to give up both or one of them and Drabek. They have a decent # of pitchers in the system that they could piece with Brown or Taylor like Savery, Worley and Carrasco, even Happ. I would suggest something along the lines of (gulp) Taylor, Savery, Carrasco and either Madson or Donald, based on their need. Hell, give ‘em both. But I would only do it for Oswalt or Halladay. I don’t like Peavy and I think he would be unhappy here. The money is what it is. They have a ton of money coming off the payroll next season and Halladay would fit nicely. They would have to have an agreement on an extension before they did it, but Oswalt’s contract is doable. The problem with Phillies phans and their prospects is that they always overvalue them. I hear on other message boards people still complaining that Outman and Gio Gonzalez are in the majors and Bourne is having a great year. Guess what…if we didn’t make those deals we wouldn’t be World F’ing Champions! You have to give to get.

Was it bob walk who won game 1? I know it was some rookie who had no business being there and who never amounted to much in teh big leagues.

I agree that people tend to over value prospects who have never held a ball in teh big leagues (you’d think bastardo already won a cy young the way people are talking) but at the same time, you hate to send great prospects away only to get a garcia or an Eaton (both of whom looked very good when we traded/signed them).

As for the money, yes we have some coming of the books, but we have 100 million commited already for next year (see above). We’re not the yankees no mater how generous the front office has been since teh WS win

Yes, I would spend $15 mil and two can’t-miss prospects if that’s what it takes to compete, I think. And the Phils can’t compete with the current rotation. This isn’t just a short term panic thing, not at all. The Phillies knew Myers would be gone after this season, so it’s a long-term investment on a good, reliable pitcher to put behind Hamels.

Anyway, that kind of price is for someone like Oswalt. Cliff Lee and Erik Bedard, I think, are too better options, and they are only making $7.75 mil and $5.75 mil respectively this year. They would require the Phils to package some prospects, but not one of ML starters.

These are not Freddie Garcias or Adam Eatons we’re talking about. If you’re too afraid to spend your resources (WISELY) to fill immediate and long-term needs, your team is going nowhere.

“Two better options,” I mean. That’s embarrassing.

Yes, it was Walk who started the first game and he got hit around pretty good early in the game. They happened to outscore Houston for the win, although Walk did pitch into the eighth. Ruthven and Christenson were the #2 and 3 guys on that team but everybody was used up from the Houston series.
They have a huge payroll compared to past years, but I think that Oswalt and/or Halladay is doable, especially when you consider the payback. They are both studs who could arguably compete with Hamels to be the #1, although the Phillies would never designate them as such. Having two studs at the top of the rotation is invaluable in the postseason.
I would never suggest giving up one of the centerpieces for the likes of Marquis or Bedard. But a Halladay or Oswalt is worth it in spades. Take a look at their hostory and you will see that neither would turn into a Garcia or Eaton. Bulldogs both.

Correction: They outscored KC for the win. This board needs an edit function.

Bedard is a FA at the end of the year, so we';re talking a rental. Also he’s a club house cancer and our club house is known to be a cool one. I dont want him no matter what. Cliff lee isn’t on the market and may be a FA as well, I’m not sure. Oswalt also has problems I understand. Who I would be interested in, however are: Josh Johnson (FLA) Zach Duke (PIT) Matt Cain (SF). None of them are aces (except perhaps Cain) but all are good pitchers who could flourish in our organization. Not too expensive and woulnd’t have to sell the farm to aquire them

Bedard isn’t a rental if you re-sign him, which we could likely do for reasonable long-term value. I never bought all of that “clubhouse cancer” stuff, to be honest with you. Cliff Lee probably will be on the market come late June/July because the Indians are already out of it and will start selling soon. There has already been rumors that the Phils front office have inquired about him. He has a club option for $8 mil for 2010 so he’s not a free agent. Cain intrigues me, but I just feel that guys like Duke and Johnson are people we would end up giving too much for for too little impact. I think that Phils fans are so used to thinking “no, now is not the time for a big deal, it doesn’t make sense for us, and we don’t have the talent to give” that now, the time when it makes perfect sense, it hasn’t even entered their minds, despite the fact that the front office is actively pursuing it, by their own admission.

I think we could get Johnson or Duke for Marson or Donalds, or perhaps 2 of our 2nd level piching prospects. Neither are ACES but they fill in nicely. I am still not convinced that we shouldn’t resign myers next year to a 1 year arbitration contract. He’s known and in my eyes a legit #2, especially since he lost the weight. I think his hip is the reson for his ups and downs this year.

As for Cain, I’d give up a legit pitching prospect + one top rated posistion player and a second rate pitcher or posistion player (all prospects of course). He would be great in our park. I don’t like the prima dona aces who can only do worse in new places. Look at CC, Lowe, etc this year. None of them are having the year they had last year.

When was the last time the Phils pulled a block buster trade? I mean one that at the time was huge? I can’t think of one since Carlton for Wise. The Lidge trade was prosepcts for “burnt out” closer. The Sandberg-Dejesus one was pretty much the same, at the time Sandberg wasn’t in the majors yet. Some one help me out here

Five-for-one Von Hayes.
Most of the big trades the Phillies have made in recent years had us giving up the player for others’ detritus, like Rolen, Schilling and Abreu. I don’t think we made out like bandits on one since, as you say, the Carlton deal. I think we made out pretty good with a few pitchers we got in the 1993 season, but frankly I forget what we gave up for them. I’m thinking about Schilling, Danny Jackson and Mulholland.
Forget the likes of Cain and Johnson. They still have value to their teams because they are not costing them all that much so they are probably not available. Wishful thinking, at best. Go for the ‘ace’, Oswalt or Halladay.

Who did we give up for 5-4-1 hayes again? was there anyone decent from our side given away in that deal?

Jay Baller, Julio Franco, Manny Trillo, George Vukovich and Jerry Willard. Trillo was pretty much done so it was basically Von Hayes for Julio Franco.

If I remember correctly, Franco was just beginning his career (I was already our of the US at that point, I think and this was before Internet made it easy to follow from halfway across the globe)

Franco was runnerup for rookie of the year in his first year with Cleveland. 2500 hits later…..

What about the Billy Wagner trade? he was still at the top of his game at the time and he had a huge need for a closer at the time. It ended badly for between the Phils and him, but at the time, it was a HUGE deal.

Sorry fib, I gotta call you out on this comment: “Look at CC, Lowe, etc this year. None of them are having the year they had last year.”

Lowe last year has a ERA for the year of 3.24. To date in 2009, he has an ERA of 3.49, hardly a major difference. Batters are hitting .240 against him, down from .246 from last year. Now, while he may not keep this up, at this point you can’t say he isn’t having the year he had last year. Since he plays for the Bravos and I live in the ATL, trust me, I get to keep up with how he’s doing.

I wouldn’t considered that much of a blockbuster either. At the time, Wagner was on the outs with Houston’s management, and it was only a matter of time before he was traded. All the Phils’ gave up was Brandon Duckworth, who was oft injured and had already fizzled out for the Phils’, a highly regarded pitching prospect at the time who also fizzled out eventually in Taylor Bucholz, and career minor leaguer Ezequiel Astacio. Not my type of blockbuster. I would consider last year’s Manny Ramirez / Jason Bay deal a blockbuster, because each team got some players that really worked out well.

That being said, I really can’t think of a Phillies “blockbuster”…

However, when I was looking for big trades, I came across an article that ESPN’s Jason Stark wrote last year about the Phillies seeking pitching help. Last year, Houston had sent scouts to Philadelphia, when the teams had “kicked up the dust on a possible deal for Oswalt.” At the time, the Phillies were in good shape with their starting pitching, and never pulled the trigger. Now that they need it, I don’t see why they can’t get it done…

Phan 52 Marty Bystrom did pitch in the post season in 1980 even though he was not called up until September. If memory serves me correctly I think he got in by claiming he was a replacement for an injured player rather than a straight September call up. George Steinbrenner, of all people, commented at the time that had the Yankees made the post-season he would have fought Bystrom’s eligibility.

By fan_in_jerusalem I can think of three trades that turned out to be blockbusters for the other teams. Future hall of famer Ferguson Jenkins and two other guys to the Cubs in 1966 for two over the hill starters. Future hall of famer Ryne Sanberg and Larry Bowa, I believe, in the early 80s for Ivan DeJesus. And a year or two later, future American League batting champion Julio Franco and three or four other prospects for Von Hayes. In short when it comes to trading prospects, the Phillies have had their pockets picked. One other but don’t remember who they got for him, a Guy named Alex Johnson who went on to win an AL batting crown as well.

Reuben stated after Brett went down for the season that they have been looking for a starter since February. I still think that option #1: the Farm produces another (or the same) Kyle Kendrick of ’07. option#2: they find an affordable, under-the-radar starter who becomes Joe Blanton of last year. Even with much higher revenues this year, I can’t imagine them picking up Halladay’s/Oswalt’s/Peavey’s contracts, muchless give away our best prospects. Gillick wouldn’t have done that, so why do you think his disciple Amaro will? Those guys are savy negotiators and usually good at identifying hidden or underrated talent.

The problem is erich, the Phillies aren’t in the market for ‘an affordable, under-the-radar starter’. They are looking to replace their #2 starter. Picking up the contract of an ‘ace’ is what Chollie appears to be asking for when he says, “Once Myers goes out we’ve got to find somebody close to Myers. Myers is a top of rotation pitcher. We pay him a lot of money to pitch for us. And he was definitely our No. 2 pitcher. We have to find some body that can go into the rotations and replace him.”
If they trade for Peavy, Oswalt or Halladay, they are effectively filling the top of the rotation for the foreseeable future along with Hamels. I believe that’s how Reuben and Gillick both would see it, and it’s a plan for success. They have the resources to do it.

There is a player we are all forgetting who could eventually fit into this equation….Gustavo Chacin. Chacin led the minors in wins in 2004 and was a serious ROY candidate in 2005. He had some serious success in Toronto before he developed some arm problems starting in 2007. He was just brought to Reading last week after extended spring training and was just sent to LV to replace Bastardo. He could be our wild card.

I forgot about him too. I can’t see a guy like Chacin being the kind of guy Amaro and the Phils are looking for though. Granted, it would be great if we developed a number two guy over night, but I think that if we do go for a number two, which is more likely in my opinion, then it’s gonna have to be outside of the system. I don’t think we’re going to get any of the pitchers that have been discussed though. The Blue Jays are still in the mix in the East, and even if they fall out, they have already said that they are committed to sticking with their rotation through next year. (Heard that on MLB Network earlier) and the Blue Jays are not the Blue Jays without Roy Halladay, lol. I’m starting to get the feeling that Peavy doesn’t want to go anywhere, and if we are going to get any of the three, it looks like it’ll be Oswalt, which I wouldn’t mind, lol. I think that Amaro should target some proven number two guys instead of an ace. Guys like (with no particular reason other than they are proven number two guys…) Dan Haren, Wandy Rodriguez, Jeff Suppan, Bronson Arroyo, Matt Cain, Chris Young, Vicente Padilla (lol, jk, jk), and so on. That being said, I haven’t really looked into any of these guys except Wandy, lol. =D

Sorry for not responding to the comments yesterday. Your evening is middle of night here and, believe it or not, I do need to sleep sometime. Deb, I accept your coment on Lowe. I was basing on W/L which, I admit is stupid. AS for block buster trades, in my mind it involves each team giving up proven starters, not prospects no matter how great they turn out to be. THe Bowa-Dejesus trade may qualify-I remember being heartbroken that the Phillies traded Bowa at the time, as both were starting all star quality players. Sandberg was a prospect who no one figured would turn into a HOFer. As for the Ferrgie trade, that was the equivilanet of the Aberu trade, we were unloading an unhappy overpaid pitcher. He’s a HOFer only because he lasted 20+ years. He was never dominating the way Carlton was

fan_in_jerusalem You as well as any other fan here is entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to the facts. The facts are that Jenkins had six straight seasons of 20+ wins and seven in an eight year period. The facts are that Jenkins won a Cy Young award and finished in the top five on four other occasions. Where do you get this idea that the trade of Jenkins was comparable to the trade of Abreu in that they both involved unloading overpaid players? Do you not know anything about the history of baseball? Jenkins was a prospect thrown in to get two over the hill starters in 1966. Jenkins was before the era of free agency. You may not agree that the trade of Jenkins fits into your self described definition of “blockbuster” trade but what is the aim of tearing down Jenkins to support your pointlessness. But I must admit your knowledge of the history baseball is only exceeded by the inanity of your inquiries and the dismissivness of your attitude..

Wow. Somebody is certainly ‘dosmissive’ in their attitude, but it isn’t f-i-j.

phan52 Your knowledge of the history of baseball seems to be lacking as well. Marty Bystrom was in the post season in 1980. Keep blowing the smoke, Buddy. I thought the “52” in your name would be either your year of birth or your age which in either case you would know something about Phillies history and what transpired in 1980. Now I get it, 52 is your IQ.

pherrisphain, You could have made your point with a little less venom. Todd’s blog has fortunately not been invaded by Met fans, so most of us are surprised to see such Mutt-like comments here. You have a point. I’m just saying that you should save your vitriolic comments for the Mutts who invade our site. You’ve been doing a great job so far.

Pherrisphain, you’ve been nothing but confrontational since you got here. Frankly, I forgot about Bystrom making the postseason roster (sue me), but it was in response to somebody thinking he started game one of the WS. You have a sizeable chip on your shoulder that appears to have taken a serious toll on your personality.
BTW, I may have had a lapse in memory, but judging by your assessment of players with outstanding discipline at the plate, you obviously lack fundamental knowledge of the game. Blowing smoke, indeed.

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