Holy Beat Down!

werth 070609.jpgWell, well, well …

Some pretty crazy things happened tonight in a 22-1 victory over the Reds:

– The Phillies tied a franchise record scoring 10 runs in the first inning. It was the fourth 10-run first inning in team history and the first since June 2, 2002, against the Montreal Expos. Boy, do I miss Montreal. While I certainly enjoy the convenience of taking the train to D.C. for a Phillies-Nationals series, Montreal is a great, great city. Nothing beat a Ben’s smoked meat sandwich.

– ESPN’s Jayson Stark tweeted that this was first time since 1894 the Phillies won a game by 20-plus runs. They won a 29-4 game against those pesky Louisville Colonels on Aug. 17, 1894, and a 24-0 game against those high falutin’ Indianapolis Hoosiers on June 28, 1887.

I’ll bet ya Big Ed Delahanty, Sliding Billy Hamilton and Sam Thompson had a heck of a game for those ’94 Phillies. Run like the wind they could! And hit, boy, could them young fellas hit! My great, great grandfather said Big Ed once knocked the cover clean off the ball! Must have been that magic tonic!

Here is some footage of old-time baseball.

– The Phillies set a season-high with 21 hits.

– They set a season-high with 22 runs, the most they have scored in a game since they scored 26 on June 11, 1985 against the Mets at Veterans Stadium. Von Hayes hit two home runs in the first inning: a leadoff homer and a grand slam. Larry Andersen threw a scoreless ninth.

Shane Victorino, who is trailing Giants third baseman Pablo Sandoval for the NL All-Star team’s Final Vote, went 4-for-5 with two doubles, a home run, four RBIs and five runs scored.

– It was the worst loss in the Reds’ 140-year history.

“That’s the worst beating I can remember on a baseball field,” Reds manager Dusty Baker said. “There’s not a whole bunch to say. We just got slaughtered.”


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That’s as much fun as I’ve had at the ballpark since the World Series. To Hell with those pitchers duels. Way too tense. Give me a grand slam off an infielder in the 8th for some real stress-free baseball fun!

Love the old time baseball footage Zo!!

Give me a pitchers’ duel with some defensive gems anyday. Position players should never pitch. It diminishes the game.

Phan52, what were the Reds suppose to do? By the time they put him in to pitch it was obvious that the Reds were NOT going to win. So should they waste a pitching arm that they could use tomorrow and risk them getting injured? With no mercy rule, the move made sense.
In other news, I read today that the Blue Jays are now willing to listen to offers for Holliday. So my question is, what do we offer for him? I think there is no doubt we make a run at him, but the question is merely who do we say “absolutely no way” to. For me it is mostly pitchers, with the exception of Carrasco and Kendrick.

First of all, some posistion players are pretty good pitchers (Babe Ruth for example–or is he a pitcher who was a pretty good hitter?) anyway, I’m happy there’s no mercy rule, would have cost Werth his Grand Slam.

Deb, If Holiday is truly on the market, and I’m not convinced he is, you pretty much sell the farm for him. Figure they can choose between any 4 prospects (as long as they don’t take BOTH Taylor and Brown) or they can have any two prospects and Werth (I’d hate to se him go, but he’s the easiest player to replace). You have to figure it will cost us: Taylor or Brown, Drubek, Marson, and probably Carlos or Bastardo depending on whether they want a RP or a starter.

I guess the poster who wanted Milt Thompson fired is having second thoughts today. Much as I am for suggesting that Rollins hit 8th…LOL! And a big NO on trading Taylor, kid seems like a keeper. But Halladay is a stud and becomes the staff ace the day he arrives. Don’t resign Myers and the salary is close to a wash. Sorry Brett, but Halladay is just too good to pass on.

That Halladay thing is based on an article that Ken “perennially full of s**t” Rosenthal wrote, which quoted Ricciardi as saying the same thing that he always does about Halladay – that they don’t want to trade him, but they listen to every offer that comes across their desk. Rosenthal is just fishing for a story. Halladay is basically off the table.

Which is not to say I wouldn’t gladly say goodbye to a bunch of prospects for him. He’s under contract for 2010 as well.

Ok, I admit to not knowing who Taylor or Brown are. But assuming their are position players, I got no trouble trading one of them. I would like to keep pitching though, but some will be needed to get this deal done. I say offer Kendrick, Carrasco, and Bastardo. NO way do you offer Carpenter, Lehr or Drabek.

Deb, I tend to agree with the other guys. If someone asked Rube if he was willing to trade Chase, he’s answwer, “I always listen to offers” What this means is unless you offer Babe Ruth, Sandy Kofax and Ty Cobb it’s not going to happen.

That said, I would make the call and pitch the pitch, who knows, it only costs a phone call to Toronto

Taylor and brown are both 5 tool OF prospects who are generally considered (along with Drubek) as off limits to trade. One of themn will replace Werth when he becomes a FA after next season

I think it doesn’t hurt to make a phone call. Just like it doesn’t hurt to watch Pedro Martinez pitch. Nothing ventured nothing gained. This of course reminds me of the frenzy over CC Sabathia and Manny this time last spring. As we know the Phils put out their “feelers” and nobody bit. And as we know things turned out okay without us having to break the bank. Now I know this year we definitely need a #2 starter. I think Taylor, Drabek, Happ are untouchable. Wouldn’t surprise me if Werth resigns with the Phils in 2010/2011, but thats for another day.

Karen, I agree that either Brown or Taylor is untouchable (I haven’t seen either of them and there doesnt sem to be agreement on which is better). That said, If I’m getting Holliday then I consider trading Drabek-if that is the deal breaker. werth probably would be very happy to give us a home team discount when he becomes a FA, but I think we’d rather save the cash and use our 5 tool rookie OF at that point in time. Otherwise, what are we keeping them for?

Deb, Michael Taylor is basically all you would want and need in an outfield prospect, and Dominic Brown is basically a younger version of him with more power (and cooler socks). I would happily part with one of them (not both, and preferably Taylor) plus some others for Halladay, but it’s very unlikely that he’s available, despite what Rosenthal says.

Why do people care so much about prospects that won’t see the majors for a couple more years like Drabek? If I were the GM, I would definitely trade one potentially phenomenal FUTURE pitcher for a very legitimate shot of the whole team winning another WS win TODAY (this year or next year). It’s one thing if we were the Pirates or something. But this Phillies team was built to win NOW and Ruben MUST take advantage of it, especially because our best players are in their prime and already know what it takes to win if all the right pieces are there. If we won one or two more world series, then I don’t mind if there is a rebuilding period for a few years afterwards. Sell the farm – the risk is worth it!! Or would you rather have them be like the Eagles who never win the big win and just stay “successful” for 10 years?

Babe: this team is built to win now, next year, 2011 etc. We have a core that with the right management and tenure can be like the team of the mid 70’s-80. Drabek is in the starting rotation by the all star game next year, and is the #2 (or perhaps Ace) by the end of the year. That said, if we can get Halladay and we need move him, he goes. What we are in need of, and can’t get rid of are 1 OF prospect (Werth leaves after next year). A 3b (Feliz is gone after next year) and catching (while Ruiz is great, having one who can hit would be nice, too)

Phillsbabe, keep in mind how we built this team to win now. But building up our farm system and identifying those players (Utley, Howard) that were untouchable, even though they might have been one to two years away.

I don’t thiunk Halladay is available, but let’s pretend that he is. The only way to keep Drabek out of the conversation is to take on the contract of either Vernon Wells or Alex Rios in the deal. They are both signed to ridiculous contracts through 2014 and Toronto would really like to get rid of one of them, preferably (by Toronto) the one for Wells.
So, we take Halladay and Vernon Wells for Marson (Barajas is their everyday catcher), Savery, Carrasco and Werth. Maybe Taylor or Brown in place of Carrasco if they prefer another outfielder. IMO, the dealbreaker would be on the Phillies side in taking on the Wells contract. Otherwise, they have to make Drabek a part of the package. I would reluctantly do it.
On a side note, I heard an interview with Taylor last week. He is a Stanford grad and clearly a very smart guy. I really liked what I heard from him and I really like what I see in his numbers. He can win the AA triple crown if he doesn’t get called up to Lehigh. Brown is supposed to be the one with more upside but I think Taylor is a 5-tool star in the making.

FIJ: Not quite sure why you think Werth & Feliz are gone after next year. If they continue to do as well as they have this year, I can’t see the Phils not making them each a reasonable offer. Feliz is a damn good 3rd baseman and his hitting this season has really been so much better than last year (guess the back surgery really helped I’m sure)

phan52, if what you stated about the Jays forcing any takers for Halladay to also take on Wells’ contract, that alone would take the Phils out of the hunt. The Mutts are so injury-depleted that they might be willing to do that kind of deal. I hope they don’t because Wells or Rios could light up NL pitching. And Halladay and Santana in the same rotation is a Phan nightmare.

The Mutts would love to take on Wells contract if it meant getting Halladay, but they have nothing substantial to offer.

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