Halladay on the Move?

halladay.jpgHey, look, Roy Halladay is on the market.

Blue Jays general manager J.P. Riccardi told FOX’s Ken Rosenthal that Halladay is available.

“We have to see what’s out there,” Ricciardi said. “I’m not saying we’re going to shop him. But if something makes sense, we at least have to listen. We’re (leaning) more toward listening than we’ve ever been.”

The Phillies are interested in Halladay, and who wouldn’t be? But the price for him is going to be enormous. Rosenthal wrote that the Blue Jays would be looking for a deal like the one the Indians made for Bartolo Colon in 2002, when they got Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee and Brandon Phillips. No question the Blue Jays would be looking for one or more of the Phillies top prospects: Kyle Drabek, Dominic Brown and Jason Knapp — although the Phillies have made it known that those three are untouchable.

Michael Taylor? Jason Donald? Lou Marson? Carlos Carrasco? The Phillies are willing to trade them.

But what if the Phillies have a real shot to land Halladay? What if including Drabek is the difference between making a deal and not making a deal? I understand saying no for a pitcher like Erik Bedard or Brad Penny, but Halladay is a different animal. He not only is one of the best pitchers in baseball, but he is signed through 2010 at $15.75 million.

So a trade market that looked remarkably weak just a few hours ago — the Phillies are taking a look today at Pedro Martinez — suddenly got a lot more interesting. And the Blue Jays hold the cards.


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By CC Sabathia, you mean Bartolo Colon right?

If we can truly get halladay I would be willing to give: Brown or Taylor, Knapp or Drabek, and anyone else on the farm (max 5 prospects. I’d also offer them Werth, and 2 prospects (but not Drabek in this case).

Given that he is signed for next year as well, and Myers and his salary wont be back if we sign him, the hit payroll wise isn’t too bad. A rotation of Hamels, Halladay, Happ, Branton and Carlos/Bastardo/Drabek (if not traded)/carpenter/ man on the moon isnt too shabby. If they want to go all out, sign Myers as well to a 1 year arbi deal and you have Hamels, Halladay, Myers, Happ, and Branton

Well worth the money and prospects

you are right–typical typo on my part

I think you mean Blanton, right? Not Branton? Or am I wrong FIJ?

Lets be serious, if we got Halladay (which we won’t, Jays asking too much and Ruben won’t pull the trigger), Cole would no longer be the #1.

It wouldn’t be to bad if we could get away with giving upany 3 or 4 of Brown, Knapp, Marson, Carrasco, Donald, Taylor, I’m with the Phillies on Drabek, he should be untouchable, he’s coming along nicely and to pass him on now would be a mistake. I also believe Martinez would be a mistake, thats like grabing a pair of jeans cause of the name on them, who cares if they fit or are durable. Just my 2 cents.

Outside the Phillies Looking In

Halladay could be this generations Steve Carlton trade. If I’m Ruben, I go very aggressively after this trade. And I’m not gonna worry about how Cole feels becoming the #2.

As I said on another thread, a way to keep the top prospects out of the deal would be to take on the contract of Vernon Wells. Toronto would love to get rid of it (he is signed to a ridiculous contract through 2014) and it would minimize what we would have to give up. We would probably have to include Werth, but not Drabek, Brown, Taylor or Knapp. A package with players like Marson, Donald, Savery, Carrasco and Kendrick on top of Werth could get it done. I just don’t think the Phillies want to take on that Wells contract, so that would put a few of the top prospects in the deal.
I look at the Boston/Florida deal that netted Josh Beckett and a WS for the Red Sox. They gave up Anibal Sanchez and a future HOFer in Hanley Ramirez, and took on a ridiculous contract for Lowell, but they won a WS and Beckett has been a stud for them. Even Lowell has been a solid contributor. Even with losing Ramirez, you can’t look back if it helps net you a championship.

One more thing, why are they prepared to let him go, it’s not like it’s the first year at this stage their post season prospects are dwindling away, even though anything can happen since they have 78 games left, do they know something no-one else does? or is Halladay unhappy? or is it just the money and prospects?

Phan52 I would definitely prefer giving up top prospects than taking on Vernon Wells’ awful contract, especially since we have no place to put him.

phylan, I agree about Wells, but Werth would be part of the deal so Wells would play right field. The problem is the length of his contract; 2014 is a long way away.
If Toronto is serious, I would offer Marson, Carrasco, Donald and Taylor or Brown (their choice), and Halladay would have to sign an extension. I’m not giving up all of those prospects for a season and a half, even if it’s the best pitcher in baseball. They get three everyday players (Barajas is their catcher and Scutero is a free agent after this year) and a solid pitching prospect in Carrasco. If they insist on Drabek, I don’t do the deal and I go talk to Ed Wade about Oswalt. The Houston farm system is barren and they need young players.

Phan, what you, and others are saying is you’d rather have a kid who has never pitched an inning in the majors than a bonifide ace. That seems to me to be a bit warped. Yes, we all think that Drabek will be a top line starter one day (maybe even next year already) but there is no certainty in this. We know that Hallaway is a top line starter for a good number of years already.

I’d gladly give up one of our 5-tool OF prospects, Drabek, donald and 1-2 other prospects, or Werth and 2-3 prospects (including Drabek) to get him. As for Wells, don’t want him, don’t need him, won’t take him. When Werth leaves via trade or FA I have a replacement already in Brown/Taylor.

I wouldn’t trade Drabek for anyone else, but as Todd says, Hallaway is a different annimal

Halladay, duh

The Phils have to be willing to sell the farm for Halladay. Nobody’s untouchable. I’d be fine if they gave up EITHER Brown or Taylor, EITHER Happ or Drabek plus whoever they want of the second tier guys (Marson, Carrasco, Donald… even Werth). I mean, we’re talking about a top 10 ML pitcher for sure, in my mind top 5. And he’s signed for another year on top of this one. The Phils’ glaring weakness is starting pitching… I’m sorry but Hamels/Blanton/Moyer/Happ/flavor of the week is not winning us another WS.


Halladay is only signed through next season. You don’t give up your top prospect (especially a pitcher) for that. He would have to sign an extension.

And if you trade Werth as part of the deal, you are short an outfielder because Taylor and Brown are not ready. Neither is Mayberry, not for a contending team.

Don’t get me wrong. I want Halladay and Hamels at the top of the rotation right now, but it has to be done right. Would Halladay sign an extension, or would he like to wait and get a contract like Santana and Sabathia?

What kind of numbers would you be offering him Phan? As for replacing werth, I think we could make do ith mayberry/Dobbs?brown/Taylor. WOuld we loose some quality, yes. Would the fact that Halladay lowers our teams ERA by nearly a full point offset this-again yes. Offence isn’t our biggest problem. Notice that Ibanez wasn’t in last night’s game and we still scored 22 runs. We could also, if we felt we had to, pick up a OF from somewhere cheap. Don’t need to be top of line, just an average player to fill in until our prospects are ready next year. (BTW, why do you think that they aren’t ready? At present we don’t have room in starting lineup and don’t want to put them on the bench)

phan52: Of course it would be great to get him signed to an extension but I think it’s worth parting with some prospects for a good shot at 2 WS championships. As for replacing Werth, I’d be fine with a Mayberry/Dobbs platoon to be honest.

To be honest, I think we have a great chance of repeating this year even without Halladay. Hamels, Happ, Blanton, Myers and “flavor of the week” haven’t done bad the last 4 games. If they get hot during playoffs, like they did last year, it’s a no brainer. However, I still want Halladay and am willing to pay the price to get him

reclinergm has a poll up right now asking reading which prospect they would LEAST like to give up for Halladay…


f-i-j and zach, the current rotation is fine for the regular season, but they need a better starting pitcher for the post season. I’m still worried about Hamels (just for this season though; he is having problems adjusting after such a huge rise in innings pitched last year) and the other guys are too inconsistent. Happ is a revelation, but not enough of a sample yet. I want Halladay (or Oswalt) and am willing to give up a lot for him. As far as the OF is concerned, Werht is integral and Dobbs/Mayberry doesn’t do much for me. Werth is headed for a 30/100 season and is looking like more of a front line player every day. He just needs to focus like an everyday player, which he doesn’t do right now.
Brown is at least 2 years from being a contributor and Taylor is tearing up AA. It doesn’t mean he is ready for ML pitching. I can see those two guys in the corners when Werth’s and Ibanez’s contracts run out, but I can give one of them and a pile of prospects for Halladay right now. Happ might have to be part of the deal because they would need to replace Halladay immediately and they would control him for a lot of years.
Brown (or Taylor), Happ, Marson and Donald. Would that get it done?

phan: I think that could get it done. It would be painful but worth it.

Hm…you can’t really trade Happ because we need him in the rotation. Even if you assume Halladay will go to the top of the rotation, you then have Cole, Moyer and Blanton. You still need a 5th and we need it to be Happ and not Lopez. Lopez might be great long term but I don’t think we can take that chance and we know right now that Happ can get it done.

Deb, I like Happ but I would never let him stand in the way of getting Halladay. They could get by in the regular season with Lopez at the #5, and they wouldn’t need him in the postseason. Halladay would almost guarantee a division title and make their rotation the strongest in the league in the postseason. Happ doesn’t do that.

I highly doubt Halladay gets moved. He is too valuable to Toronto and I don’t think anyone can put together a package that could bring him in.

It still infuriates me that when the Phillies were in a similar situation and traded Schilling with a year and a half left on his contract that they came away with a wagon-load of garbage. Thank you once again, Ed Wade.

Well fink, maybe we can make a deal with Ed Wade for Oswalt.

It may not be worth the stress of figuring out what the Jays will take, since he has a full no trade clause, it may be as important to understand what he may want, and with his obvious talent any team would be bidding against the Yankies for sure and we all know they have the deepest pockets

I would hardly characterize Happ as a fifth starter. If consistency is the measuring stick, I would put him no lower than #2. And, I only say #2 because thus far this year the Phillies have not had a #1. One big difference between obtaining a Steve Carlton and obtaining a Roy Halladay is the fact that Carlton was 6 years younger in 1972 than Halladay is now. Carlton had about 113 wins as a Phillie by the time he got as old as Halladay is now.

I wasn’t referring to Happ as a #5, I was talking about Lopez. But Happ vs Halladay? No contest. I like Happ but Halladay is a top 5 pitcher in MLB. And the difference between Carlton and Halladay, beyond their age, is that Carlton came in when the team was young and growing. Halladay, on the other hand, would come in to a team in it’s prime with a 2-3 year window in this age of free agency. This team will most probably be completely different three years from now. They appear to have been drafting much better in recent years and have a lot of pieces. Win while you can and worry about 2012 in 2012.
I know I am wasting my time though because the Jays will not trade Halladay unless they can get rid of Wells or Rios’ contracts. There are only a few teams who can do that and the Phillies aren’t one of them.

phan52……….No on accused you of labeling Happ as a fifth starter but it was done in the thread above by someone else who indicated the Phillies needed to have Happ as the fifth starter rather than Lopez with the clear implication that Happ is now in competition with Lopez for the fifth starter position. To which I can only respond that Happ is closer to Hamels for consideration as the ace than he is in competiton with Lopez for the fifth spot. I do like your suggestion about taking on a Wells or Rios to lessen what the Phillies would have to give up. But rather than keeping one of these players, pass them on in a three team deal with the Phillies eating some of the contract for the third team.

The Mets and Giants are in desperate need of a solid bat in the outfield, but I doubt they would assist in our getting Halladay. Maybe somebody in the American League.

Normally a team is not going to help a team in its own division so the Mets are out unless the Phillies conclude their situation is hopeless for this year. But I don’t know why the Giants would not be interested since their first objective is to get into the playoffs.

The more I think of it, I really want Halladay. They are going to have to take the ‘untouchable’ label off a few guys to get Ricciardi’s attention. Maybe if the Phillies step up negotiations it’ll get Ed Wade’s attention and we could actually make a better deal for Oswalt. They are the two guys I would mortgage a bit of the future for.

I suggest the following for a halladay and I will explain why:
We send: Drabek, Brown, Marson, Donalds, Bastardo and Carpenter. We get Halladay. While Drabek, Carpenter and bastardo may all be quality pitchers in the big leagues one day, halladay is right now and projects to continue that way for at least 5 more years. We’d have a rotation of: Hamels, Halladay, Happ, Blanton and Moyer/Carlos?lopez/flavor of the week

Marson will be a good catcher but we have on already (Ruiz) and another in A ball projected to be better then Marson in a few years (Ruiz is still Arbitration only).

Donalds is blocked in our organization for at least 3 years unless he is going to be the next Brunlett. He can’t play 3rd (they haven’t even really played him there this year) so won’t replace Feliz, and utility inf are a dime a dozen.

Brown is also blocked for the next few years and Taylor is a better player. When Werth goes FA after 2010 Taylor replaces him. Mayberry becomes the 4th OF next year.

If we make this deal we can win the WS for teh next 2-4 years with no problems.

I would do it in a heartbeat, although winning everything is never guaranteed. It improves our chances trmendously, so I’ll take my chances.
As far as utility players being a ‘dime a dozen’, why are we stuck with Bruntlett?

If the Phillies want to address their starting pitching issues, what better way than to get the biggest fish out there? Since when WOULDN”T it cost you a pretty penny to get a big time player? The Phillies are ready to win NOW, with that said, I understand how important it is not to “sell the farm” for Halladay. How many of the Phillies prospects will even be major league ready 2-3 years from now? I’ll worry about that 2-3 years from now. Drabek is the only untouchable. Give Toronto Taylor because he’ll be major league ready the fastest. Happ…YES Happ. His stock is pretty good now and they’d like a major league ready pitcher. Donald goes and Knapp goes. The Phillies will also have to take on the remaining salary on Halladay’s contract. Now to make this work for the Phillies, they’d have to give Halladay an extension.

I think money is the bigger issue than letting these prospects go. The exchange rate from Canadian dollars to U.S. dollars sucks and Toronto can’t handle it. The Phillies payroll is already higher than they’d like it to be.

In reality, Pedro gets signed, Halladay doesn’t get traded…to the Phillies anyway.

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