Could It Be Martinez and Halladay?


pedro 2.jpgPedro Martinez
is going to throw one more time for the Phillies in the Dominican Republic.

If it goes well, expect him to sign, possibly next week.

But what does Martinez’s arrival say about the Phillies’ interest in Roy Halladay? Actually, it says nothing. A baseball source told MLB.com last night that signing Martinez will not prevent the Phillies from pursuing Halladay, who the Blue Jays have dangled as trade bait.

If they get Martinez, the source said the Phillies are going to make a run at Halladay, too.

Now how does that work?

Here is one man’s theory: If the Blue Jays require a young Major League-ready pitcher as part of any deal, they could demand J.A. Happ. Having Martinez in the picture — even though nobody knows how he will perform after struggling last season with the Mets — would give the Phillies more depth to consider the move.

Still, Halladay coming to the Phillies remains a long shot. The Blue Jays are going to ask a king’s ransom for him, and you can’t blame them. The Phillies have three untouchables in their farm system (right-handers Kyle Drabek and Jason Knapp, and outfielder Dominic Brown), but I think any of them could be moved for Halladay if the price is right. That price might include Happ.

That should not be surprising. Quite a few big names in the Phillies farm system would have to move to get Halladay.

I’m not sure that will happen.

I’m much more certain that Martinez will.

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Baseball America ranks Brown 17th, Taylor 23rd and Drabek 24th amongst the Top 25 prospects in baseball. Knapp is in the top 50.

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The Zo Zone is on Facebook and Twitter.

21 Comments

Thanks, Zo. It certainly behooves the Phils to pursue Halladay, and I agree with you that any of the 3 supposed “untouchables” could warrant inclusion in a deal for him.

If Buster Olney’s reports that it’s going to take an aggressive offer/king’s ransome to land Doc are to be believed, I’d put together the following package and make it known that it’s the best I can do:

-Happ
-Drabek
-Taylor OR Brown
-Donald

This would certainly give Ricciardi a decision to make. He’d get his future frontline guy in Drabek, a young, ML-ready starter in Happ, a 5-tool potential All-Star OFer in Taylor or Brown and **** who can take over for Scutaro at year’s end.

That’s a lot to give up, but fans who think Halladay can be had for much less are kidding themselves.

What do you think?

The following are my opinions only.
1) I like how the Phils asked Pedro to pitch again. That shows they are really doing their due diligence on this guy. It gives me faith in them.
2) if we sign Pedro, then yes, let’s include Happ.
3) I say we offer the following: Happ, Carrasco, Donald and either Taylor or Brown. They get one ML ready pitcher (Happ), one who is right on the verge (Carrasco) and two other players who can probably either play now or next season. That is a heck of a return.

Oh, and just to add, the Phils get the following rotation:
Halladay, Hamels, Blanton, Pedro, and Moyer. Those top 3 ain’t bad and the top two are back next year, and perhaps Blanton and Myers too. I’ll take that!

And here I thought one point of all the Pedro rumors was about telling the Blue Jays we don’t really need Halladay, and maybe they should lower their price if they really want to get rid of him.

Now, I know that the two aren’t comparable, but is Pedro who we want as a fifth starter? I guess it all depends how well he can throw. Thanks for keeping us updated.

I really dont know about Pedro, and I think we could give up too much for Halladay. I like Happ and I want to keep him around. I heard the Reds announcers talking that Aaron Harang could possibly be moved, I think he would be a good fit, better than Pedro and easier to aqcuire than Halladay. He could be like last years Blanton, but better.

Doesnt matter, in all honesty the Phils will not get Halladay. i can almost guarantee it. its like what happened with Anquan Boldin and Braylon Edwards. The teams will act like they are going to listen to offers, but deep down they know they arent really going to trade anyone. Its like appeasing the players. No offer may come in good enough for what Jays management wants in return, but thats essentialy because they really dont want to let go of the guy. I think the Phils know this, and thats why they have sudden interest in Pedro. Kudos to the Phils though for not being hung up on Halladay.

If signing Pedro is part of a two-pronged attack to get Halladay, I’m for it. As much as I like him, I would never let Happ stand in the way of getting Halladay. But I wouldn’t want to send BOTH Happ and Drabek. Halladay probably will be a free agent after 2010 so we will need Drabek. Happ, Carrasco (or Savery), Donald and Brown. Throw in Kendrick or Carpenter and get ‘er done!!

The Jays will deal Halladay for the right price. Ricciardi knows he cannot resign Halladay after 2010, that they cannot compete next year unless literally everything goes exactly right for them, and that he can get the most value for Halladay right now. The Jays, who are still mired in a huge contract for Vernon Wells, and some other dents in the wallet, want to dump some salary anyway. It’ll take a lot to get him, but it’s nothing like the Boldin situation.

mstein_88, I honestly don’t think that’s enough. You’ll probably have to add Marson and a prospect on the order of Yohan Flande or maybe Vance Worley to get it done. Halladay is one of the top 3 pitchers in baseball, and Ricciardi is going to want a king’s ransom.

phylan – Then I probably wouldn’t do a deal. The Jays would be getting 2 of the top 25 prospects in baseball (according to Baseball America) in Drabek and Taylor or Brown, plus a young, promising lefty starter in Happ and an everyday shortstop in Donald. If that’s not enough of a king’s ransom, Ricciardi’s gonna have to find another king.

It’s personal preference of course, but I would definitely do it. The best pitcher in the AL coming to the NL for our rotation would make the Phils instant contenders to go deep in the playoffs.

I’ll say this for the last time, and I really hope that Rube reads this blog. DO NOT SIGN PEDRO!! i’d rather have a kid from LV or Reading as the 5th starter then fat, old, pedro. If we don’t get Halladay he adds nothing to the team, and if we do get Halladay he adds nothing to the team. If Happ has to move to land Halladay, then Drabek is staying put. NO way do we trade 2/5 of our starting rotation next year for Halladay. If Happ goes, we have a rotation of Hamels, Halladay, Blanton (is still arbi next year) Moyer and flavor of week. In this case, I figure that as of Sept 1 drabek is the flavor of week. In playoffs we only need 4 pitchers (Moyer made 2 starts I believe in playoffs last year as #4). Pedro is not an answer for this team now, tomorrow or at any time

I’m not sure I agree with giving up Haap AND Drabek. Especially, with Martinez not being proven. We’ve been bitten once too often, with our signings of big name starters/relievers. The list is too long to mention here. We need to keep someone in the wings.

As for last night’s game…….I’m a little annoyed that the media didn’t make more of a fuss of Chase’s inside-the-parker. Barely mentioned it in any of the sources. Didn’t they realize what a big deal that was? I wonder how many times that has actually happened at CBP? Not many. And granted, if the Red’s right fielder hadn’t stood there like a statue, it may only have been a triple. But Chase busted butt to get to home plate. And made it standing! I was at the game, and we fans were totally freaking out!!! Even more than when we saw one of Howard’s grand slams. One of the most exciting things I’ve ever seen at a ballgame! And no, I’m not complaining because it was Chase. LOL!

Drabek won’t be called up on September 1st, Ruben already said he wouldn’t. It’s best for his development if he continues to work in the minors until at least next year.

I mean, if Ricciardi wants a reasonable package that includes both Happ and Drabek as components, Ruben would be hard pressed to say no. The whole “untouchables” thing is not the attitude to have when you’re pursuing one of the top 3 pitchers in the game. If that means Pedro/Bastardo/Lopez/Kendrick/Carrasco (if he doesn’t get dealt) have to hold down the fifth spot by committee, then so be it.

Also, although I do love Happ and think he will find success, I think you’re all overrating him a bit. He’s getting a lot of help from one of the best defenses in the league (Fielding Independent ERA is 4.65, compared to a 3.04 regular ERA), and he’s getting lucky too ( .246 BABIP). He’s good, but he’s probably not more than a fourth, maybe third starter kind of guy.

Agree with most comments on here… willing to give up Happ OR Drabek, Taylor OR Brown, plus Donald and Marson. Maybe throw in Knapp with Happ if that’s what it takes to get ‘er done.

Would hate, hate, hate to see the Phils sign Pedro… will only be semi worth it if it’s a prelude to a Halladay trade.

There is no doubt Halladay would be a good fit for the Phillies, I am not sure a ‘whatever it takes attitude’ to get him would be right, if by some slim chance we don’t win it all again this year, or next, then we are going to be complaining of why we gave some of these youngsters away. As for Martinez, forget his pitching abilities for one second, I just don’t think his character is a good fit in Philadelphia, and that will affect him and maybe others on the team too.

i just think the best possible deal would be this

brown or taylor
carrasco
marson
donald

and that to me is a steal for the phillies, they have 2 frontline outfield prospects both seem to be of the same player mold with taylor having a little more power, you have a middle infielder in donald who is basically stuck in the minors due to rollins and utley, i know there was talk of him playing 3rd but who knows, and with marson, they have d’arnaud (spelling) who is another hightly touted catching prospect, so to me that makes marson expendable. they would be giving the jays 3 of their top 10 prospects, but they arent doing the phillies much as of right now

OK…what do Phils need to do before getting Halladay? 1. Trade a low level prospect to Seattle for Rafael Betancourt and release Bruntlett. Gives you adequate backup for Rollins, a decent righty bat off the bench and the ability to move Donald. 2. Sign Pedro who along with Moyer and Lopez will be in the mix as a 4th or 5th rotation spot. This frees up Happ to be part of the package for Halladay. Happ, Donald, Brown & either Kendrick or Carpenter. The Jays have plenty of young pitchers…they need Donald and Brown.

If you could trick Ricciardi into taking Kenrick or Carpenter as part of the package instead of either Drabek, Knapp, Flande, or Worley, I’d like to petition Giles to hire you as the new Phillies GM.

Its Happ instead of Drabek or Knapp. Happ plays now while Donald and Brown will play within one year. That’s 3 major leaguers within a year. Kendrick or Carpenter is a sweetener with little chance of getting to the dance at CBP.

You guys crack me up!

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