No Drabek, No Halladay? Not Necessarily



drabek 01.jpgRuben Amaro Jr.
has said repeatedly there are untouchables in his farm system — players he absolutely will not trade.

I don’t believe that.

Before Roy Halladay became available, the Phillies had three untouchables: Kyle Drabek, Dominic Brown and Jason Knapp. Trade any of those three for Erik Bedard or Brad Penny? No way. Trade any of those three for Halladay? Sure, let’s talk. SI.com reports the Phillies have drawn a line in the sand on Drabek. They reportedly will not trade him. That might be true. The Phillies love Drabek. A front office official from another team told me last week that he considered Drabek to be the best pitcher at the All-Star Futures Game. Drabek is very good. He has top-of-the-rotation potential.

But not including Drabek doesn’t mean a deal can’t be made. It just means the rest of the package changes, which Ken Rosenthal also writes.

No Drabek almost certainly would mean J.A. Happ is included. It also might mean the Phillies have to include Brown or Knapp. Maybe both.

Could the Blue Jays walk away from an offer of Happ, Knapp, Brown or Michael Taylor and another prospect like Jason Donald? That is a pretty serious package. Brown and Taylor are two of the top 25 prospects in baseball according to Baseball America. Knapp is in the top 50. Happ is a National League Rookie of the Year candidate.

And if the Blue Jays can’t trade Halladay before the July 31 non-waiver trade deadline, they will have to trade him in the off-season or next season before the trade deadline. And the longer they wait, the less in return they receive because the team trading for him will have him for less time.

No Drabek, no Halladay?

It’s possible, but I believe if the Phillies insist on keeping Drabek, they still have enough talent to make a deal happen. They just might have to give up more talent overall than if Drabek had been included.

And do I make this trade with the Phillies running away with the NL East? Absolutely. Sure, the Phillies can win the NL East without Halladay. But can they win the World Series? That’s the question people should be asking.

*

Kyle Kendrick got scratched from today’s start with Triple-A Lehigh Valley, but Phillies assistant general manager Chuck Lamar said it had “absolutely nothing to do with the trade deadline.”

The Phillies had been considering a roster move and scratched Kendrick in case they needed him to pitch out of the bullpen tonight. Clay Condrey just returned from the DL with a strained oblique. He said he still has some soreness, but that it is “night and day” from how he felt before he went on the DL last month.

An Internet rumor had the Phillies about to trade Kendrick for Nationals outfielder Josh Willingham. That is completely and utterly false, two sources said. The Phillies have called the Nationals about Willingham, just like they have called every team with a righthanded bat for their bench, but no trade is imminent. And as far as I can tell, the Phillies have done nothing more than make the initial call.

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23 Comments

As Todd says there…”Sure, the Phillies can win the NL East without Halladay. But can they win the World Series? That’s the question people should be asking.”….somebody in the room just got BINGO!!

This shouldn’t be about winning divisions around here anymore. I think Phillies phans are so used to being MLB stepchildren that they are scared by success and a big deal = bad deal. Hey, Fergie Jenkins was traded over 40 years ago. Get over it.

The question I’m still asking is do we trade Drabek or Happ. I realize that Drabek is projected to be a top of rotation guy, but Happ is putting up the numbrs now and will help us witn this year. Happ is healthy and has the mentality for teh MLB, Drabek has had surgery and has temper tantrums all the time.

Do the Phillies love Drabek as much as they’re letting on? Could they be hyping him, marking him as their one “untouchable,” then “reluctantly” include him in a deal that doesn’t include Happ and/or other significant prospects? One of the best pitchers in baseball for an unproven commodity?

slim,. it takes two to trade. No way we give up Drabek and Happ. The Jays can keep Halliday and loose him to FA next year and get 2 draft picks who may, in 5 years make it to the majors. In other words they HAVE to trade him now or they will get much much less for him.

You have got to be out of your mind if you think the Phillies can acquire Halladay, without giving up Happ and Drabek and atleast two other players. Phillies will not make this trade happen and they would be foolish to. Happ is pitching great and along with Hamels and Blanton, thats a solid three in the playoffs and World Series. Fill the final spots in with Lopez and Moyer, who will win a few games respectivelty the rest of the regular season, especially with the Phillies offense. Remember last year, the Phillies had less starting pitching than they do now and they won the World Series. Todd, do they pay you to do this horrible of a job, lol!

Another scaredy cat phan who has absolutely no clue about who Roy Halladay is and what he would mean to the rotation.
Thank goodness Phillies phans are not at the negotiating table. Get’ er done, Ruben!

Slim, last year the Phillies had Hamels pitching like an ace, unlike this season, Myers with all his big league experience and a previous 2 starts in the post season, and Blanton and moyer. This year we have Hamels pitching like a #3 pitcher, Happ with no post season experience, Blanton and Moyer who is much less effective then last year, despite his wins totals. Gt with it We could definately use help in the rotation

Gaaawd what a hackneyed phrase

“Get’ er done”;

“Get it done, Rube”

Phan, as for your comment on last thread: I didn’t miss your point, I understood that Pedro replaces happ if he’s traded. I think you missed mine, Pedro can go to the Pen if Happ stays, and the phils have serriously considered this option as shown by the incentive clauses in his contract

If anyone in their right mind at the Jays is doing is looking at what the Philly fans are saying and everyone is telling them they should be getting Happ or Drabek thats what they’ll hold out for and use against the Phillies in the negotiations, I would be more inclined to be telling the Jays have anyone you want just not Happ or Drabeck

If the Jays have a brain in thier heads they know that we are fans, not professional baseball people and only care about winning, not profit, not any of the 1 million other aspects of the game besides being Workd F*cking Champions”. Relax, they read these blogs as comic relief if at all

While this trade talk is very entertaining, the fact is no matter how much we research Drabeck and see him as the second coming of Greg Maddux, he is a PROSPECT. The Phillies have had lot’s of them over the years, most of them forgettable. Halladay is a proven, in his prime, stud workhorse. This is a no brainer,make the trade. If it takes trading Happ, I’m good with that. Halladay gives us a chance to win for a few years. Did you have fun at the parade, want to see another one? Then you make the deal. I’ll trade another one or two WS appearances for Drabeck winning a Cy Young award 5 years from now.

Joed21: the difference is that Todd has actual news or updates to provide and all we have are our opinions which rearely change (and have no real effect on anything). It does, however, help make the time pass while working.

Jimmy: I think most of the people here are in agreement with you on this. I also think that most of us draw the line at trding BOTh happ and drabek for Halladay. The major arguments seem to be over which one we should be willing to offer and which one we should only give up if it’s a deal breaker. I preer to keep Happ, others prefer to keep Drabek. We’d all trade either if we have no choice

July 31st needs to get here already. I don’t know how writers like Todd do it. I’d be going insane working on the same topic over and over. I’m insane thinking about it. I don’t think Halladay is going anywhere but just give me an answer!

The interesting thing is no matter what someone says there’s always a different point of view put forward, which as fij said helps pass the time, also no matter what Todd writes about the topic always reverts back to Halladay, it is sometime fun to write something off the wall here just to see the responses….:-)

Thanks Todd for speaking some truth. Hear that pherris?

C’mon Ruben, pull the trigger!

If the roles were reversed would Phillies fans feel the same. Statistically speaking Roy Halladay has the best winning percentage of anyone this century Career Totals 142- 69 3.46 era. Check this out strikeouts to walks -> 437 walks 1400 SO. No phillies pitcher in their entire 100yr history has those numbers. Now imagine you have this guy frontlining your staff. Its all about the WORLD SERIES!. Screw the playoffs … Kyle Drabek , and others not contributing at the ML level big deal they are unproven are only prospects. Prospect Quality for Guaranteed Quality (i.e ROY HALLADAY). Im pretty sure if Phillies fans new him as well as Jays fans they too would not trade him for one or two prospect and would want 1 or 2 BLUE CHIPS. GET THE DEAL DONE THIS IS NOT A FLEA MARKET! Otherwise DON’T COMPLAIN when your Phillies lose to the likes of the RED SOX or YANKEES in the big show should you even make it that far?????

If the roles were reversed would Phillies fans feel the same. Statistically speaking Roy Halladay has the best winning percentage of anyone this century Career Totals 142- 69 3.46 era. Check this out strikeouts to walks -> 437 walks 1400 SO. No phillies pitcher in their entire 100yr history has those numbers. Now imagine you have this guy frontlining your staff. Its all about the WORLD SERIES!. Screw the playoffs … Kyle Drabek , and others not contributing at the ML level big deal they are unproven are only prospects. Prospect Quality for Guaranteed Quality (i.e ROY HALLADAY). Im pretty sure if Phillies fans new him as well as Jays fans they too would not trade him for one or two prospect and would want 1 or 2 BLUE CHIPS. GET THE DEAL DONE THIS IS NOT A FLEA MARKET! Otherwise DON’T COMPLAIN when your Phillies lose to the likes of the RED SOX or YANKEES in the big show should you even make it that far?????

Of course Jays fans want maximum benefit from trading Halladay, but the fact that his numbers are historical and it gives no guarantee that when he gets on the mound he is going to win, and who says the yankees or the redsox are going to be the AL WS teams, what of the Rays, they still have a good shot, and if I am not mistaken they beat him up pretty good, it’s not all about him, it’s about the team around him and that includes the rotation, so I still say don’t give any of our rotation away

Your right its not all about Roy Halladay. Its about Ryan Howard and company who are aging by the day and would want another ring or two and who would want only the best (ROY HALLADAY). No cheap alternatives will do. But hey when your not in a US market a guy like Halladay gets treated as if he has Carl Pavano like stats. Guaranteed if Halladay is in NEW YORK, CHICAGO, LA, or even PHILADELPHIA he would get alot more respect and attention. But hey what do JAYS fans know anyways as they have only won as many world series titles as the Philles in a 1/3 amount of years in existance. You owe it to the Philadelphia players and more deserving the Fans. PAT (stand) GILLICK are you listening?? STATS don’t lie but People do…

zach58……………..What was I suppose to have heard? More stale information?

There are More reasons NOT to trade for Halliday then there are TO trade for Halliday and they all center around the too HIGH a price that the Jays want for a guy whom they MUST trade anyway.
The Phillies WON the WS WITHOUT Halliday and the key player that the Jays want , Drabek, wil be needed in 2010 anyway. He is NOT 2 or 3 years away. The Phillies, while in win NOW mode, have MORE than a ONE year window. IF I’m Amaro, I’m not compromising my 3 year window to win for a SLIGHTLY better chance to win in just 2009, when they will likely be in the playoffs anyway. It’s not JUST the Phillies scouts who are touting Drabek, it’s most scouts in MLB. And finally , the Phils fans with the ” get over it” response to the Jenkins and Sandberg trades are just not learning from the personnel mistakes from the past which, unfortunately, have made the Phils the most losing team in pro sports. As a Phillies fans, I want to get AWAY from THAT image.

dolfanman, I’ll say it again. Fergie Jenkins was traded away over 40 years ago. Get over it. Even if Drabek became an All-Star (far from a given), Roy Halladay will never be mistaken for Bob Buhl.

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