Taking a Halladay

Let’s take a brief Roy Halladay break for some numbers surrounding the Phillies’ 10-game winning streak and their 14-1 mark since July 2:

  • Elias Sports Bureau reports the 10-game winning streak is the longest by a defending World Series champion since the 1971 Orioles won 11 consecutive games.
  • The Phillies became the first time in 17 years to win their last five games before the All-Star break and their first first five games after the break. The only other team to do that since 1980 was the 1992 Braves.
  • Jayson Werth hit a walk-off homer in the 13th inning Tuesday. Since 1986 only three other Phillies have had walk-off homers in the 13th inning or later: John Kruk (14th inning on April 20, 1993), Todd Pratt (13th inning on June 21, 2003) and Ryan Howard (14th inning on July 25, 2007).
  • This is the team’s longest winning streak since they won 13 straight July 30-Aug. 12, 1991.
  • Since July 2, the Phillies lead the National League in runs (95), home runs (24), walks (74), on-base percentage (.373), slugging percentage (.489), ERA (2.15) and opponents batting average (.198). The bullpen has allowed only three of 18 inherited runners to score.

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OK, back to Halladay. ESPN’s Jayson Stark gets the latest update from Blue Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi.

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Ryan Howard, Jimmy Rollins, J.C. Romero and Shane Victorino join former big leaguers like Milt Thompson and others tomorrow at Richie Ashburn Field at FDR Park for a clinic for 300 Philadelphia-area youth. The Players Trust’s City Clinics program is a grass-roots campaign underwritten and developed by – and featuring the active participation of – current Major Leaguers to promote the game of baseball to underprivileged children, ages 6-16, in select cities across the country.

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42 Comments

Please allow me to sum up this post. “The Phillies are kicking ***”

Much shorter and clearer, isn’t it?

Thanks Todd, for breaking the “monotony” of all this Halladay talk. It is however fun to dream sorta like playing the lottery.

Last nights win was almost as exciting as the last come from behind win against the Reds.

Well put f_i_j. I only have two questions… 1) does anyone else think Werth’s swing is strangely awkward? Like he doesn’t follow through completely or something? 2) will Jaime Moyer please retire and become a bench coach?

AS long as Werth keeps doing what he’s been doing, I don’t care how he swings. As for Moyer, I suggest you check out his stats since June 1 and then reconsider the post

Obviously Werth’s swing is effective, I’m just wondering why it looks so strange. As for Moyer, I don’t care how well he’s pitched recently (until today) he’s got the 3rd worst ERA among qualified starters and opponents are batting .296 with a .504 slugging % against him! I love the guy, but c’mon, it’s after the all-star break, it’s getting ridiculous.

FIJ: I think Zach’s post might be because Moyer got knocked around this afternoon (it’s the bottom of the 6th and the Phils are losing 5-1 and Moyer is out of the game)

Brad Lidge is consistent in his inconsistency. I’m sure Yogi Berra would agree. There is no way that he doesn’t have a serious injury that he has been hiding. No one can pitch the way he did last year and suck this bad this year without having an injury. I guess he could be tipping his pitches, but he’s been in MLB for so long that you ‘d have to ask,”Why now?” He has shown no signs of improvement. He can still strike guys out, but he walks, hits, or gives up run-scoring hits to the hitters he doesn’t strike out. I’ll still root for him, but won’t be expecting him to be “lights-out” anymore….

Question: in the event that the Phillies do trade for Halladay (not likely, I know, but if they do) and assuming that Pedro is good to go (and will therefore become the 5th starter), it’s pretty obvious that the one to get bumped from the rotation will be Moyer. He is, without question, the weak link in the staff when you examine his record over the entire season. But what could they possibly do with him? When he’s bad (which unfortunately has been more often than not this year) he’s usually bad from the outset, so he wouldn’t make a good reliever (and even if he did, who would he bump from the bullpen?). Add to that the possibility that Myers will be back before year’s end at which time he’ll pitch out of the bullpen and Moyer has no place at all on the staff. There’s no question he is extremely valuable to the team as a mentor and teammate so what do the Phillies do? The infamous “spider bite” DL?

What is wrong with everyone on this board?! If we get Halladay, Drebek or Happ will go to Toronto. Ruben said Drebek is “untouchable”. Which means………………..That’s right J.A. ends up in Toronto. So stop posting ridiculous pitching rotations that will include Happ and Halladay. And besides, why do you think Pedro was signed at all, if Happ were still going to be around after a trade? oldadoo, Jamie getting bumped? Please……

A great winning streak, but the team played terrible today – sloppy play is very uncharacteristic of them. You can’t win them all, but hate to lose one like they did today. Durbin continues to struggle (Walker’s numbers much better THIS year) and Lidge should change his name to Wild Thing. Also, it looks like Utley and Howard may be slumping.

There is lots of Halliday talk, but how about a righthanded bat for the bench? It’s time to dump Bruntlett and send Mayberry back down to get more at bats. Also, why does it have to be Halliday? Get one or two good bats for the bench and pick up a less publicized starter like they did with Blanton last year.

thumpbump, I said that the other day, maybe they should call around I am sure that even with teams saying not going to trade the right offer, a lot less than a Halladay one would probably result in a good rotaion guy…
As for Moyer… I don’t recall all these anti-Moyer feeling last wek after his outing against the Marlins… and he wasn’t bad from the start, his first 2 innings were good, then if you watched, Zambrano was getting a strike zone Moyer would have loved to have…. all of the starting rotaion is having a not so good year, look at Hamels, yet we don’t want to get rid of him… some people are just ageists….
We definately need to do something about Bruntlett, even his defense has been below par this year…. and as for Pedro being able to replace Moyer… we have to see how he does first, his past performance is not a guarantee anymore…

It “has” to be Halladay because not only do the Phils not have a #1 starter right now, they barely have anyone who resembles a #2 starter. (People will say Happ, but it’s too early to call him a #2, and Blanton’s been great recently but his numbers still aren’t #2-like.) Both Charlie and Ruben have said repeatedly that they need top-of-the-rotation help and there just isn’t much available. I’ve heard Cliff Lee and Roy Oswalt mentioned, but Halladay is so much better than those guys. Of course we also need a right-handed bat off the bench and maybe some bullpen help, but those should be much easier to come by.

devilabrit: I was saying the same thing after Moyer’s start against the Marlins. I said it was the perfect time for him to retire! So he could go out on top! His numbers are absolutely horrible. He has to have an ump with a wide strike zone and impatient hitters to even have a chance. At this point we have no other options so I’m fine leaving him in the rotation, but if Pedro shows any signs of life in the minors Moyer should sit before Lopez. Just my two cents, I love Moyer as a person and I love the season he put up last year but those shouldn’t justify keeping him in the rotation.

In response to erichh1, in fairness I did say it wasn’t likely we’d end up making a trade but if we did… it is just silly to say that anyone other than Moyer would have to be replaced. You aren’t going to take Hamels or Blanton or Happ or Pedro (if he is the 5th starter) out of the rotation and leave Moyer in, are you? Pedro and Moyer may turn out to be right and left handed versions of the same guy – unpredictable (which is to say undependable) and 5 or 6 innings on an average day. So the question wasn’t whether Moyer would be pulled, it’s what would the Phillies do with him WHEN he’s pulled, which you didn’t address. If the Phillies include Happ in the trade (which I wouldn’t want to do if it were up to me) that would obviously answer the question. But if they include Drabek (who is nothing but promise while Halladay is right now the best right handed pitcher in MLB) that would be a fair gamble, I think and the team would then be faced with exactly the question I posed. You might want to note that Keith Law at ESPN, who is as a former scout is as knowledgeable as any columnist, doesn’t see Drabek as anything more than a #2 or 3 guy, so maybe we shouldn’t be treating him as the Second Coming.

Nice try, Todd. All it takes is one clown to start the Halladay ball rolling. I’m so tired of it all.
I’ll be glad to see July 30 get here so we can put a stop to this nonsense.

Last year we tore into Rollins for calling us fair weather fans. YOu guys have just proved him right!! FOr the past 10+ games, not counting last night, the pHils hadn’t lost, had an ERA of 2.something and were amazing. THey had one bad game, and Moyer a bad outing and again, you’re calling for his head. AS was said above, no one was screaming for him to retire, be pulled from the rotation etc after his start against the Fish. HOward hits a HR 2 games ago and everyone is thrilled, tonight he had a “bad” game and he’s slumping. Next think you know Happ, the darling of the town this year, will have a off night, give up 5 runs, 3 of them HR’s and we’ll loose. Everyone will be calling for him to be sent back down etc.

No wonder certain players don’t want to come here. THey have to put up with fair weather fans like you. GOod or bad these are our Phillies. Yes, we can improve the team. Yes, some players have been inconsistant or downright awful this year. But then again, some have been prteety good for the last couple of months and have an occaisional off night. Can you be perfect every day? Even every 5th day? Take a deep breath and relax. I’m sure you’ll all be cheering at this year’s parade down Broad

fan_in_jerusalem, you’re missing the point, as least as far as my comments regarding Moyer. I’m not the one who said the Phillies are interested in Halladay, Ruben Amaro was, and I’m not the one who said the Phillies were still interested in Halladay after signing Pedro, Ruben Amarao was, and I’m not the one who said at the outset that the Phillies were looking to add 2 starters if possible, Ruben Amaro was. My question as to what to do with Moyer was predicated on the Phillies’ remarks and actions. People here on the blog who are “protecting” the players are missing the point and not responding to the question. If the Phillies were looking (and still are looking) for 2 arms for the rotation, who would YOU replace if not Moyer? It’s not one bad outing after 3 or 4 that’s the issue, is it? Just because the Phillies (and we) are addressing the issue doesn’t mean they (or we) are raining on your World Series parade. I just saw that the Dodgers are making a serious run at Halladay. Ask yourself this: if the Dodgers get Halladay, with the line-up and staff they already have, and the Phillies’ starters remain as they are, do you think the Phillies’ chances of repeating are better or worse?

It’s possible that Moyer could be the one moved out of the rotation, it may even be Lopez, if Martinez performs I think it would almost be a coin toss between him and Moyer, although it is possible with teams not having seen Martinez for awhile he would win, I don’t see too many reasons why say during August, maybe into September a little we couldn’t go with a 6 man rotation, with the rain day catch-up games to be played we have a fairly heavy schedule looming, we’re in the middle of one now.
I also heard that scouts are in Toronto looking at the Indians, Lee, there are more rumour mills this am, that put the Rays in a possible strong bid for Halladay too, other reports say the Jays not only need to dump halladay salary they need to dump Rolen and others too..

oldadoo: You are correct that Moyer may be moved out of the rotation if we get Halliday. My problem isn’t this, or even calling for him to be removed in favor of Halliday. However, coments like:
will Jaime Moyer please retire and become a bench coach? or
suggesting Howard is slumping a game after he hits a HR

that get me. Obvoiusly if we signed Zimmerman Feliz would be delegaded to bench status (no, we’re not going after Zimmerman, it’s an example) but that doesn’t mean you have to trash the guy in the process.

fij – I agree it is sad that at times some players get degraded because of abad performance, I remember people calling for Burrell to be gone, yet in the post season he had some critical plays… and quite frankly if everyone goes on about past records, i.e. Halladay… Moyer has had a few himself, this year he’s not in the same league has halladay, but past seasons he has been… and as I’ve said before, just because you get a guy who’s doing really well doesn’t mean that will continue in a new uniform, yes it probably will for Halladay but its no guarantee..

Degrading a players performance is not the same as degrading the player as a person. I too liked Pat but the truth of the matter is that in his last year or two he was over paid. I hope if push comes to shove when the Phillies obtain another starting pitcher, not if or who but when, or two for that matter. and the question becomes who to release, it is based on merit. As it now stands, between Moyer and Lopez, I would keep Lopez. Among Lopez, Martinez and Moyer, it would still be keep Lopez with Martinez and Moyer vying for the last spot.

f-i-j, a HR with a 9-1 lead aside, face it, Howard is not doing so well. He’s completely clueless against lefthanders right now. Usually, they don’t throw him strikes and try to get him to swing at breaking balls off the plate. If I was a lefty, I’d hammer him with strikes until he proves me wrong because, right now, he can’t hit them.
Moyer and his 5.65 ERA is no better than a #5 right now. I’d replace him in a minute if I could. He never goes beyond 6 innings (twice in 19 starts). It won’t happen though, because he is one of Chollie’s guys and I guess I can live with that. Chollie is the manager of the World F’ing Champions and I’m not. His call.

phan52…………You always go off on a “Cholliie this” or “Chollie that” riff. While it is true Charlie makes the decisions on the field when it comes to utilizing the players he is given, I do not believe he has as much say when it comes to the players he is given than is popularly believed. This is not to say that he is not consulted but only to allow as to how this is perfunctory in many instances and that he may tip the scales in only very tight, borderline case but not beyond. I concur with your conclusion that Moyer is no more than a #5 starter but only with the caveat that there needs to be four starters above him. Without getting into order and/or the designation of “ace”, I conclude the Phillies have these in Hamels, Blanton, Happ. and Lopez currently in the top four spots.

As you say, Chollie utilizes the players he is given. And Moyer is one of them. If it ever came down to Moyer vs. Lopez, say goodbye to Lopez. If it eventually comes down to Moyer vs. Martinez, Martinez would go to the ‘pen. That’s just the way it is. Moyer is a World F’ing Champion. Chollie obviously rewards that.

Since it seems Moyer’s possible rotation loss is being based on ERA, just hyperthetically how would you feel if:

Moyers ERA was 7.65, but he was 14-2 in wins and Hamels had and ERA of 1.65 and his wins were 1-9

Whats the cut off point for a bad ERA putting a pitcher in the position of being dropped from a rotation, or do you use some magic formula that combines ERA vs wins or do you include other things too, like IP, CG, Quality Starts….. just curious what people define the standings of a pitcher…

phan52 ……………..I am still confused. Are you saying that Moyer v. Lopez on the roster is Charlies decision?

Wins are a meaningless stat. They reflect so many things besides the quality of the starting pitcher, mainly run support, quality of pitchers and teams you face and how well your bullpen pitched that day. And LOL at fij.

I am saying Moyer vs. Lopez in the ROTATION is Chollie’s decision. And if Lopez is not in the rotation, he is most probably not on the roster. So I guess, in reality, that is also Chollie’s decision because Lopez’s spot on the roster is dependent on his spot in the rotation.
Bottom line, Chollie is not sitting Moyer.

phan52 ……Circular reasoning. If Lopez is on the roster he is in the starting rotation. But if Lopez is not a starter, he is not on the roster. The question remains who decides who is on the roster? Is it Charlie or is it someone else? Simple question, requiring a simple answer.

I answered it. Are you stupid?

Go play your roundy-round games with someone else….circular indeed…

If you go by what has been shown on the TV it’s a collective reasoning with Charlie, Amaro, and other coaches and any other personel they need information from, depending on the player and the position….

If you go by what has been shown on the TV it’s a collective reasoning with Charlie, Amaro, and other coaches and any other personel they need information from, depending on the player and the position….

devilabrit, I doubt that Ruben would tell Chollie to sit Moyer in place of Lopez if he didn’t want to. Frankly, I’m guessing that Lopez is probably a goner once Martinez is deemed ready. That would be a ‘team’ decision, but Chollie is riding Moyer to the end. He’s seen him come through too often. It’s the same sentiment with Lidge. He’s Chollie’s closer.

phan52………It is not etched here on the internet that you did not answer my question. Keep digging, Buddy, keep digging.

devilabrit………..I have no doubt that it is a consensus among equals except some are more equal than others.

I am just a little confused on how the reasoning each person gets for who should be in and who should be out…. for instancs Lopez only has 3 games this year, with an ERA of 2.60 in July…career ERA of 4.76 over 190 games…. Hamels in July has a 5.73 ERA over 4 games…career 3.64 over 102 games… Moyer in July has 4.24 ERA over 4 games…career 4.23 over 656 games.. Blanton in july has 0.83 ERA in July over 3 games…career 4.24 ERA over 153 games…. so what do you go on, recent, lest 10 games, last 20, or last 100 ???

In my mind, Moyer vs. Lopez would be quite close right now (if the Phils were lucky enough to get that choice). Honestly I don’t think we’ve gotten a good enough look at Lopez to know that he’d be better than Moyer, but I’m inclined to take a unknown quantity over a known Moyer at this point. Just to reiterate, I love the guy, the way he conducts himself, prepares for games, mentors young pitchers and gives back to community. I really appreciate everything he did for the Phils in the regular season last year and Game 4 of the WS. I just think that when you have the 3rd worst ERA, the 5th worst HR/9, and the 10th worst hits/9 in the MAJORS, after the all-star break, your job should be vulnerable.

This just in………Durbin right latissimus strain (muscle along the side of the back) & Romero (strained left forearm) have been put on the 15 day DL. Carpenter & Walker called up from LV. Yikes!

I saw that… hmmmm, Walker I don’t think is too bad, the problem is Durbin has been pretty good out of the pen recently and they will need the pen with the current schedule they have.. I think you got it right with…Yikes!

Karen, if that’s true, then Charlie should take a good look at himself in the mirror and ask these queations: “Should I have sent Chad out there two days after he completed a three-inning save?” And “Should I have let him pitch those three innings in the first place?”

Pedro should probably start as a long reliever to begin with. What happened to J.C.? His arm should have been good to go for the rest of the year.

My bad. Charlie’s pitching Chad had nothing to do with his injury.

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