Phillies Shifting Focus to Lee?

cliff lee 01.jpgRoy Halladay
and Cliff Lee remain in play, but what are the chances either is traded to the Phillies before Friday’s Trade Deadline?

Halladay? Fading fast, one source said Monday.

Lee? He is turning into the better bet.

Several sources have said the team’s chances of acquiring Halladay have decreased in recent days, which puts Lee into greater focus. One source said that while the Blue Jays have asked for J.A. Happ, Kyle Drabek and Dominic Brown – a National League Rookie of the Year candidate and the organization’s top pitching and position player prospects, respectively – the Phillies might be able to acquire Lee without giving up Drabek.

But without Drabek, the package for Lee would expand to include more players.

The Indians aren’t believed to be terribly motivated to move Lee, who is a Cy Young winner and who makes just $9 million next season. But clearly there are talks between the two teams. The Indians had a scout in Double-A Reading on Monday to watch Drabek. (The Blue Jays also watched Drabek pitch.)

So what happened with the Blue Jays?

The Blue Jays rejected a counteroffer from the Phillies that included Happ, Triple-A Lehigh Valley outfielder Michael Taylor, right-hander Carlos Carrasco and shortstop Jason Donald, according to There were reports Monday that talks soured between the Phillies and Blue Jays over the weekend, even turning nasty as the teams differed on fair value for Halladay.

A Phillies spokesman made a point to gather Phillies beat reporters before Monday’s game against the Diamondbacks at Chase Field to tell them there is no animosity between the Phillies and Blue Jays “or any other club that they’re engaged in trade discussions with from our point of view.”

Those words clearly came from Phillies general manager Ruben Amaro Jr., who is trying to maintain a low profile this week. Blue Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi has been far more visible and vocal in recent weeks. He told Sunday the chances of trading Halladay are “very slim.”

That could be nothing more than posturing while others believe it is just another indication the Blue Jays are not backing off their demands for Happ, Drabek and Brown.


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Given that the Jays seem to want us to send them not only our entire farm system but our WS rings as well, and the Indians aren’t motivated to move Lee, I have a suggestion. Look in a totally different direction. We all know that besides a SP, this team needs a RHB off the bench and a RP to take over from Lidge if he continues to resemble Wild Thing.

See which team is wiling to part with a RHB who can play all infield possitions and has speed and who is a proven pinch hitter. Open up the pharm system and say, “Pick any one or two not named Taylor, Brown, Drabek or Knapp”

Let Myers return as a set up/closer guy (close if Lidge can’t get it together).
Go into playoffs with a rotation of Hamels, Blanton, Happ, Pedro and Moyer/Lopez. Figure on a bunch of 20-19 wins.

during the off season, either sign Myers to a one year deal, aggressively persue a FA starter (Bedard, Harden, Lackey) or make a deal for a starter like the one we’re willing to make now.

Your rotation next year would be: Hamels, New guy, Blanton, Happ, Moyer/Drabek.

F-i-j……………..At least if your not going to read the memos from the thought police residing here, if you consult your Mayan calendar, you’ll realize that there is not going to be any need for a farm system when the world ends in 2012.

The Phillies need a dominant right handed pitcher, not a pitcher who is a lefty like Cliff Lee. The Phils are already overstocked with lefties. If the Phillies don’t get Halladay, they should just call up Drabeck in September and give him the chance to prove that he is worth holding up the deal for Halladay.

This makes better sense anyway to call up Drabeck and let him get a couple of starts this season and possibly bring him in for the 2010 season. Walk away Amaro, give up the thoughts of adding Halliday because he will cost the Phillies too much.

I concur with calling up Drabek. But get ready for the onslaught of vituperation and explanation as to how the Phillies cannot expose such a delicate child to the rigors of a major league existence.

fightinphillies: Before you endorse moving Drabek to the majors, you should first learn to spell his name. And you’re 1 for 2 on Halladay. Spelling is a vital cog in the writing process, and you’d be well advised to start. Otherwise, people will think you’re just another goofball fan with a blog.

So the Phillies put together a lefty heavy lineup even though it was met with much criticism and it is one of the best lineups in the league. Now they are considering a lefty heavy rotation? Can lightning strike twice? I like Lee and you are getting a very good pitcher for a minimal price (money-wise) but I just don’t see it happening. What would really be great is if they could get both Lee and Victor Martinez. Martinez would be a tremendous upgrade at the catching position and on the rare day Howard needs a rest you can put him at first. I can’t imagine how nasty this already nasty lineup would be….


Ruben, you do this and I kiss you.

pherrisphain: Thanks for the update on the Mayan prohesies. Do you happen to know when the Aztecs predict the end of the world as well?

I can be certain, that whether we get Halladay or not, 2012 is going to be a very interesting year for our Phillies with loads of new faces. I just hope it comes after having won 3 straight World Series

Hey muleman, how about you unwad your panties and cut fightinphillies some slack, ok? The mispelling could have been simple typos, which we ALL make. Besides, you know full well who she was talking about. Let’s try to be nice to each other, ok?

You want to take a guy who is not far removed from Tommy John surgery and who has already pitched 80 more innings than he has in his career, and bring him up to see if he can pitch in the postseason. Look no further than what has happened to Hamels this season after pitching many more innings last year than he has in the past. It has to be a progression with young pitchers.

Meanwhile you don’t want a horse in his prime who averages 230 innings per 162 games and is an acknowledged top 2-3 pitcher in MLB because your world will end as you know it without your precious ‘prospects’.

Whatever. Scared? Get a dog.

He spelled it that way on his blog also, so they weren’t typos. Learn to spell. It’s easy, and has noting to do with being nice.

go Deb, go

room for thought – understanding there is a good contract current contract – and that there is no real desire to trade – but with the Phillies in Arizona could they be talking Haren weirder things have happened in baseball – and before anyone critiques my spelling or grammer, I’m too old to care so save your abuse for someone else….

devilabrit……………………Haran or someone else. I suspect the Phillies are going to make some trade between now and the deadline. One good thing is if the Phillies pound the D-backs they may be more amenable to trading Haran (or is that Haren?)

Haren, got it.

as someone who is severely spelling inpaired, give the spell check a rest. We’re not to blame that cant include a spell check feature.

I’m currious as to which RHB we’ll get. Ideas? wish lists?

They should have gotten Lugo when they had the chance. I can’t believe Bruntlett is still on the team.

I think the problem with Lugo was that the Bosox had bad mouthed the guy so much, many teams probably stayed away from him besides the Phillies. It made me chuckle every time he came up against the Phillies and have to suppress the urge to go to the Bosox site and ask them how the Lugo deal turned out considering the Bosox recent offensive problems.

Despite his recent Cardinals success, Lugo is not a good hitter.

I just can’t help but laugh at the fact that Eric Bruntlett is a major leaguer.

Eric Bruntlett has some kind of Reno Mahe effect on management and the front office where he is so terrible they are simply confused and bewildered by it, and do nothing as a result.

I just wish someone would do something to get Halladay out of the ESPN loop or at least knock it down a few pegs.

I know Lugo is not good but not good is better than what Bruntlett brings to the table.

The Mahe comparison is spot-on. Fine work.

Dan Haren would be great but he has a pretty sweet contract through 2012. Arizona has the best of both worlds with him; he’s a legit top-of-the-rotation type guy and his salary is pretty manageable.
If they can’t get Halladay I would prefer that they stand pat unless they could get a guy like Haren or Oswalt, but they aren’t available. Guys like Bedard, Washburn and Harang just won’t make any difference.

Bruntlett pinched hit for Park last night, while Park is hitting 20 points higher. What was the point?

What a waste of a roster spot.

Maybe they should just keep Bruntlett around. With this team at 17 games over .500 I need something to get angry about and Eric fills that void.

phan52, you are right on the money. i wish they would stand pat if they dont get the best outta the bunch. why pay the same price for lee as you would with halladay? the two shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence.

as for bruntlett, he made the team IMO, because he could also be used as a pinch runner. think about it, when the season opened our bats of the bench were Dobbs, Stairs, Cairo, and him. Not exactly a speedster-group. Outta the bunch, he could be used in pinch running duties. Think about how that affected the World Series last year. Now that they have Mayberry, im not sold on why hes still on the roster. but at least i can explain why he was prior to Mayberry being up here.

I have to agree on the Bruntlett thing, I couldn’t understand last night if they haad to pinch hit for Park , why not Dobbs, LHB had hit that pitcher not RHB… maybe they should bring up a prspect instead of Bruntlett and let another one sit around like they do with Mayberry, they’ll probably try harder and do better, can’t tell me we don’t have a good runner in the farm system that could bench sit for a couple of months… and Lugo…I think he’s more trouble than he’s worth…

I would assume the Phillies will not pay the same price for Lee. Phillies to Toronto: We will not give you Happ, Drabek, Brown and whoever for Halladay. Phillies to Indians: We will give you Happ. Drabek, Brown and whoever for Lee. I don’t think so. But then on second thought, Lee’s contract is cheaper than Halladay. But, I still do not think so.

Brunlett made the team because he can play every posistion except for CF (yes, he can even catch, having taken over from Werth as teh emeregency catcher this year). That said, there is no place on a roster for someone who hits under .200 IMO we should bring up Donald after the trade deadline and put Brunlett on waivers. The kid can’t do any worse, and with Mayberry/Stairs/Dobbs covering the OF, Donaldand Dobbs covering the inf and Stairs as a back-up 1B we really don’t need Brunlett. I think its safe to say that neither Utley nor Feliz are having any ill efects from their surgeries during off season (one of the main worries as during the spring).

fij- agree with that….
pherrisphain – thats funny…. not a chance they would give the same or more for Lee regardless of how cheap his contract is… but yep stranger things have happened…

Phillies fans are a classic case of rising expectations. Phillies management is not. Quite the opposite. The most surprised group about the Phillies success has been Phillies management. I still remember the news conference after the trade of Bobby Abreu when Pat Gullick attempted to let Phillies fans down lightly with his admonition to the effect that sometimes you have to go backward before going forward. To managements surprise the Phillies surged and the Phillies became buyers and sellers in the same year and went out and got Jamie Moyer. This snowballed in 2007 and 2008. Now the chickens have come home to roost and management and the fan base are almost diametrically opposed. The Phillies are way ahead of management expectations but behind expectations of fans fueled by recent success. Now management has to decide whether to blow its plan and keep fans happy or stick to the plan. My guess is management sticks to plan and hopes for the best. Ergo, no Roy Halladay. Why would management bend. All games are sellouts and the same can be expected next year after the Phillies at least win their third division title.

As far as management is concerned, they are not compatable with what Pat Gillick would do. Gillick is already on record stating that they should get Halladay, as is Chollie.
Amaro appears to be more in the Ed Wade mold, overvaluing ‘prospects’ who have never played an inning of MLB.

I have heard that Gillick is very much involved behind the scenes. Also its really interesting how some of the players (Victorino, Hamels, Howard) have also said they should “go for it” with Halladay. Usually in these types of situations they say something PC, but this time their saying go get ’em!

It doesn’t matter what Pat Gillick wants or what Charlie wants. The bottom line is what the partners want. It adds nothing to the debate to accuse Amaro of being in the Ed Wade mold. We have no idea what is going on behind close doors. But the only thing easier than throwing aspersions around is to throw baseball statictics around. Some are most adept at throwing both.

pherrisphain, excellent point. You may be right. But with Amaro trying to assert himself as his own man, who knows what will happen…..

Yes, Pat Gillick and Roy Halladay will be going to the HOF but only one will have time served with the Phillies on his resume. Guess which one? First guess doesn’t count.

It should matter what Pat Gillick wants. He is still on the payroll as a consultant and he is the one in the room going to the HOF. Maybe he and Roy Halladay will be inducted in the same class.

pherris, you’re comment about management is really good. They really have been caught off-guard by all of this success. I’m scared that they really won’t go for the gusto and get Halladay after Amaro’s recent comments and now the split in the front office with Gillick wanting him and Amaro being afraid to give up prospects. I really hope they don’t take a page out of the Eagles book and go the “stay competitive so the turnstiles don’t get cold” approach. The Phillies can really take back the sporting crown in this city right now. I can feel the tide turning and Philadelphia might once again become a baseball town. I’m a baseball fan first and foremost but I’m a huge Eagles fan as well. It’s amazing how my thoughts have turned over the past 5 years. I used to hate Phillies ownership for being cheap and never going for it. Now they have the most exciting core in the league and have a ring to boot. The Eagles front office walks around as if they’ve won something and they have nothing to show for it.

Gillick is on the payroll but as a consultant only. He hand picked Amaro so that should carry some weight as well. I’m sorry but I think of a package of Happ, Carassco (or Knapp), Taylor, and Donald is fair. It makes no sense to give up both Happ AND Drabek.

joed21, great minds think alike. LOL!! The Phillies are the ‘gold standard’ in Philly now and need to keep it going. I agree with everything you say in that post.
I heard Todd on the radio a little while ago and his assessment is that chances are slim for Halladay and that they are just kicking the tires on Lee. Cleveland doesn’t really have any reason to trade him.

Gold standard…haha oh how I love that little weasel Joe Banner.

I don’t think Cleveland is serious about dealing Lee. I can’t imagine the backlash if they deal CC, Lee and possibly Martinez within 1 year. That is ugly.

joed21 ………….I am not with you on this. I have had four world series apppearances and two championships in my lifetime. The Eagles haven’t done squat. The Eagles give me the sense that they want to do just enough to keep the seats filled. There are two groups in baseball: the Yankees and everyone else. The top of everyone else is the Redsox. The Phillies are on the cusp of being the Redsox of the National League. They may not be able to win the WS every year but they will be competitve every year and go farther than any NL team year after year. Back to back championships would be nice but not necessary.

Pherris: At the risk of sounding like a broken record (you remember those, don’t you?) if we trade away the farm we won’t be the Red Sox of the NL past 2011. This is the catch 22 of baseball. Do you go for it now, or try to maintain a team next year as well. I agree with you about the eagles. They’ll never win as long as their fans are happy with just making the playoffs. IF we deal Happ, Drabek, etc, who is left to play in 2012? Go to Cott’s and you see that with the exception of Ruiz and Utley, all of our starting 9 are either FA or already gone by then. Pitching wise, we’ll have COle still in his last year of Arbi, and that’s it. Not even one pitcher from teh bullpen is signed through then.

I am all in favor of getting either Halladay or Lee or a different top of the rotation starter, but the price can’t kill the dynasty we can potentially be building.

Pherris: At the risk of sounding like a broken record (you remember those, don’t you?) if we trade away the farm we won’t be the Red Sox of the NL past 2011. This is the catch 22 of baseball. Do you go for it now, or try to maintain a team next year as well. I agree with you about the eagles. They’ll never win as long as their fans are happy with just making the playoffs. IF we deal Happ, Drabek, etc, who is left to play in 2012? Go to Cott’s and you see that with the exception of Ruiz and Utley, all of our starting 9 are either FA or already gone by then. Pitching wise, we’ll have COle still in his last year of Arbi, and that’s it. Not even one pitcher from teh bullpen is signed through then.

I am all in favor of getting either Halladay or Lee or a different top of the rotation starter, but the price can’t kill the dynasty we can potentially be building.

sorry for the double post

Sounds like you are talking about the Braves there, pherrisphain. You know, the Braves team that won division titles from 1991 to 2005 and had one WS title to show for it and no NL pennants since 1999.
One thing of note about that team. They signed Greg Maddox in 1993 and, after losing to the Phillies in the NLCS, they played in the next two WS, winning their only one in the 14 year streak.

fan_in_jerusalem …………..My point exactly is that if we trade the farm, we do not become the Bosox of the NL now or in the foreseeable future. The Phillies hold there ground, win the third straight division title and go on from there. The farm feeds the machine. Without the farm, the machine is not fed. I am not sure we disagree.

pherris, I believe you missed my point entirely. The Eagles haven’t done anything which is why their arrogance is funny to me.

I do not know exactly what went wrong with the Braves winning only one WS after winning 14 NL East titles. The only constant in that was the manager. My guess is that it was the manager. It doesn’t take a baseball genius to have success when you have a rotation which included three future HOFers. This is not to say that this is going to repeat in Philadelphia. The Phillies on the otherhand doing what they do have won twice as many WS. I forgot, phan52, what exactly is your point? Assuming of course you have one.

joed21 ………………Point taken.

wants to hear predictions on who is on the 2012 phillies. (they must me reasonable, don’t go telling me that our rotaion is Halladay, Lee, Drabek, Cole and Cy young, for example)

fij, you are terrible.

f.i.j.: As far as spell check, I don’t think Drabek would show up. I lose respect for people who can’t spell the names of the players they’re talking about. Typos are one thing, but the player’s name? It’s just ignorant. The same goes for the fans who could never pronounce Burrell and cannot now pronounce HALaday (It’s not HOLiday). It isn’t rocket science. The guy promoted his blog in his comment. Spelling is a part of writing – or at least it should be.
As far as 2012, who can tell? If you had asked in 2005 what the 2009 Phillies would look like, how many correct answers would you have gotten?
You had Abreu, Lofton and Burrell as your outfield, Lieberthal at catcher and David Bell at third. The rotation was Lidle, Lieber, Myers and Padilla. I don’t remember the 5th starter – it was probably Madson.
The point is that with free agency, it’s pointless to wonder about the team 3 years from now. Why are you so concerned?

fij is concerned because he’s pretty terrible. That’s why muleman. He is so hung up on 2012 and beyond right now. I am starting to wonder if he is on Ruben’s payroll.

And to your point about misspellings and poor pronunciation….amen. The Burrell thing drove me nuts and so is the whole Holliday-Halladay thing.

Halladay, Lee, Drabek, Happ, J.P. Ricciardi ,
Halladay, Lee, Drabek, Happ, J.P. Ricciardi ,
Halladay, Lee, Drabek, Happ, J.P. Ricciardi ,
Halladay, Lee, Drabek, Happ, J.P. Ricciardi,
Halladay, Lee, Drabek, Happ, J.P. Ricciardi,
Halladay, Lee, Drabek, Happ, J.P. Ricciardi
Please Lord, make it stop…LOL!

Mule: I spelled Drabek correctly (I think). I know I make tons of typos and spelling mistakes. Some of it is due to the fact that I’m typing 7 hours later then you guys on teh East coast. some of it is due to the fact that I’m multi-tasking and generally on the phone at work (I work 4pm -midnight local) selling conferencing services while I do this (Anyone make conference call or host Webinars and want a great price?) and it’s mostly due to the fact that I’m a lousy typist.

Having said that, the point is that while we won’t get it right, we are all smart enough to realize that the Phillies aren’t the Yankees and won’t go out and buy a 25 man roster via FA market. We need to have a core of home grown guys to enable us to be a top team. Look at this team: We aquired Feliz, Ibanez, Werth, Victorino, to fill our our core of Howard, Utley, Rollins and Ruiz. Even there, two of tehm were picked up on the cheap. Out pitching is the same. Around the core of Myers and Hamels we aquired 3 more starters. We went out and got the Bullpen’s missing parts. We need a core for when this team breaks apart. Who will be that core?

He’s so hung up on 2012 because he remembers the teams from 1981-2007 (with the exception of 1983) and doesn’t want to relive those years again.

Yeah well I remember those teams as well which is why winning two straight world series championships would feel that much better given those terrible times.

Can someone please tell me what the lineup will be in 2086 please?

f_i_j, actually it’s funny that your post starts….”at the risk of sounding like a broken record” and then you double posted, like a broken record. Very creative; don’t apologize!

Why do we have to finish last the next five years? That makes no sense. You made a good point that we found some important pieces on the cheap (Victorino, Werth, JC Romero). Why does that have to end? It’s Ruben’s job to find players like that. But sometimes you have to use the farm to find pieces, like with Lidge, Blanton and Moyer. And the last I looked our well-stocked farm system does not end with Drabek, Taylor and Brown. You are showing your negadelphian dark side here.

Joed, so we win both this year and next year. We all enjoy the parades, etc. Then we finish last (behind not only the Mutts, but the Nats) for the next 5 years. This is what you want? I want to win this year, next year and hopefully in 2012 as well.

Get the starter we need, but keep some players as well for the future. You sound like a guy who’d spend your last buck for a beer, not thinking about how he’d pay cab to get home.

what if I’m commenting via an Iphone… can hardly see the screen never mind if I spelt stuff right…..I realize or is it realise..hmmm assumption is the mother of all evils, but some people understand that not everyone enjoyed a full and fruitfull education, maybe it’s not his fault he can’t spell things.. okay didn’t realize..there it is again realise just in case this was an english class of commenting… anyway.. no i forgot what i was going to write about… sh**… oh yeah… the broken record thing… double entry.. too funny…

oooops spelt … should be spelled… LOL

got to turn this speak and spell thing off

f-i-j. you never stop trying to get players on the cheap, no matter your core. And BTW, this core is not going to be here forever. Strike while the iron is hot and get the best pitcher in baseball for as long as you can. Maybe he gives the Phillies a hometown discount to stay with a winner, but that is for later. If you trade Happ or Drabek, you still have the other guy. If you trade Taylor or Brown, you still have the other guy. The rest of the players are a crapshoot so you do what you have to to improve your chances right now. Carrasco, Marson and Donald were untouchable last season and nobody thought anything of Drabek and Taylor. That’s a crapshoot. Halladay is not a crapshoot.

Getting back to baseball and Halladay (That’s H-A-L-L-A-D-A-Y) this may interest you all. BJay’s owners admit they are trying to cut costs. Perhaps they will deal no matter what?

Also, Phan, we were able to add on the cheap because we had a strong core. If we trade away the next crops stars we have no core. I agree that we need to move at least one if not two top prospects for Halladay (for spelling of his name, see above) but all of them? As has been said sooo many times Either happ or Drabek, Taylor or brown, and pick 2 of Marson, Donald, carlos etc.

Why is my latest response to f-i-j before his post? That keeps happening. MLB blogs is really a bad site.

f_i_j, I think you meant that you are 7 hours AHEAD of EST, which is better than being 3 hours behind EST, as I am here in LA. By the time I post anything, usually it’s hours after everyome has left…. As for spelling, syntax, grammar, etc. , I don’t judge people on their posting ( or their pronunciation ), and I’m an ESL (English) teacher. So muleman, you can comb through my previous posts and point out all my mistakes. I don’t care. Although I DO agree about the correct spelling of names like Holliday (Matt) vs. Halladay (Roy).

Erich, when you guys all watch the games at 7:30 EDT it’s 2:30 AM here. I wake up in the morning to see the results. I love west coast games as I get to see the final innings on MLB.COM.

By the way, the red sox traded for an outfielder today. don’t know if it means anything related to Halladay, but thought you’d all like to know before you go home to enjoy your evening and todays win over the D-Backs.

Ya gotta admit….Halladay & Holliday are bit confusing especially when HOLLIDAY was in town with his new team and HALLADAY was still the talk of the town. I think most spelling error here at the Zone are typos in nature. Many of us trying to quickly type a comment while at work before the boss sees us🙂

jimmymack: couldn’t agree more! can’t wait until Friday when all this madness will end (then of course we’ll either deal with the fact that we didn’t get Halladay or we’ll be dancing in the streets because we did!)

f_i_j, I admire your dedication to the Phils. To be honest, when I lived in Japan (1984-1994), I lost track of the Phils for almost the a whole decade. I could only hear the post-season games in ’93 on AFRTS. Had the internet been available, I’m not sure I would’ve stayed up late just to join a discussion on-line. Anyway, keep up the good posting!!!

fij, no I don’t want to see the team finish last from 2011 on but whose to say that is what is going to happen. You keep bringing it up as if it will be fact. The draft happens every year. Replenish the farm system, it’s not that hard. You’re not trading every single minor leaguer you have for Halladay. Why am I still even responding to you? I’m better off turning to the wall beside me and carrying on a conversation.

This just in, the Phillies records for 2011 and beyond if they get Halladay:

2011: 60-102
2012: 55-107
2013: 63-99
2014: 68-94

erichh1: LOL!! Actually I’m just a bit tired of talking about Halladay. Looking forward to getting back to discussing the each day’s game stats.

While some important pieces can be had on the cheap. how often is it that a team lands a Victorino and Werth at the same time? The Phillies would not even have Victorino if the Dodgers or Padres or who ever it was the Phillies had taken him from had not refused to take him back. Granted only 10% of draft picks ever make it to the majors but when they do, the club who drafted them has control. Besides the plethora of prospects the Phillies have has resulted from their increased attention to developing the farm system over the last several years. Trading two at the A or AA or AAA level may represent the only ones from the repective years in which they were drafted who have a chance to make it to the majors. If they are not available when the Phillies need them where do their replacements come from? More importantly, how much do their replacements cost?

Ahhhh, the women are coming back. I was wondering why Karen, Norma, Debindixie, Lisa, et al had been avoiding this blog. Did Todd sexually-harrass you goys or something? lol

Sorry muleman, I meant “guys” not “goys”, although it might be used for Guys who are bOYS.

pherrisphain, I agree with your point about prospects who have a real chance of getting to the Major League. On the other hand, there may be a player in our Pharm system that blooms later and becomes star in the future. It’s not common, but who knows?

back to the Almanac and crystal ball…. hinde sight is 20-20, if you have some element of common sense, the crytsal ball is pure guess work… it maybe based on facts but still guess work, and it goes for prospects and current starters, no body knows what tomorrow brings, thats the beauty of it… you can word it anyway you want to make yourself feel better, like the odds are in favor of…. or the stats show he’s going to be… but the truth is its still guess work, but it is fun trying to guess the right move and the fact that everyone sees things differently is what makes some… I did say some… of the discusions interesting

karen, I think it’s funny how most guys think women are over-emotional and can’t control their feelings. Yet on this blog, I think the opposite is true. Some guys can’t control their emotional outbursts, while the women usually make level-headed comments. lol

karen: No, Halladay and Holliday aren’t confusing. One is an outfielder and the other is a pitcher. No confusion. Why is spelling such a hot-button issue?
erichh1: Obviously, I’m not talking about simple typos. These are the PLAYERS. Geez.
f.i.j.: You can’t concern yourself with 2012 when your entire outfield is made up of free agents and Rule 5’s, along with your third baseman and most of your pitching staff. It really isn’t relevant.
Lee is easy to spell. Let’s get him!

The confusion with the names stems from Roy Halladay’s nickname being “Doc”, but I think Doc Holliday is spelled the same as Matt Holliday, or is it Happy Holiday? Dang! I don’t know. I just see why it’s confusing.

Muleman: One is an outfielder the other a pitcher… kidding??! LOL! You must admit their names are fairly similar in spelling (one w/an “I” and the other with an “A”)and pronunciation. Let’s hope a deal is made by weeks end. Either with the pitcher with the tougher spell…HALLADAY or the easier route LEE.

The Phils are doing a great job of running Haren’s pitch-count up. It took him 71 pitches to get though the 3rd inning.

I think we all need a Halladay from all this Holiday talk, or something like that. Friday can’t come soon enough.

I still want Halliday, but I’m going to reiterate that this bullpen is not playoff caliber. I don’t care how many arms they’ve retained from last year, they are all either injured or performing at a drastically lower level. The Phillies need to do something about it to be competitive in the post season.

I still want Halliday, but I’m going to reiterate that this bullpen is not playoff caliber. I don’t care how many arms they’ve retained from last year, they are all either injured or performing at a drastically lower level. The Phillies need to do something about it to be competitive in the post season.

Lately I just sit back and expect this team to win. It’s unbelievable how this team is playing right now. Sure the D-Backs made some errors last night but overall they hit the ball hard off Haren and if not for Ibanez getting robbed in the first they still earn 3 runs off him. I agree with phylan though, this pen scares me. I know they are banged up right now but Lidge still terrifies me and I don’t know what they can do about it. If Myers returns do you split the duties of closer? I’m at a loss.

joed21, i think that would be the best idea. only use myers to come in when its apparent lidge is struggling. right now, after they get into the 9th, they have no one to come in with that closer mindset besides lidge. myers is a nut, and that proves valuable coming down the stretch.

I’m sure the Phils are going to give Lidge a bit of a long leash to workout whatever problems he appears to having. But I thought it was interesting that a Phils’ scout watched Orioles closer George Sherrill pitch on Sunday. Hmmm?!?

Talk amongst yourselves………..

Sherrill is not very steady either but the Phillies aren’t in a position to pass by him without looking. And I agree on Myers, the guy is nuts but he is also a fierce competitor with something to prove if/when he should come back. I like my chances with a fired up Myers on the mound with an offseason of contract talks looming.

BREAKING NEWS just in from ESPN: Roy Halladay is still a Blue Jay.

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