Rollins, Victorino Win Gold Gloves

rollins and victorino 1111.jpgJimmy Rollins
and Shane Victorino found themselves in rare company Wednesday when they picked up Gold Gloves.

Rollins is the first National League shortstop to win three consecutive Gold Gloves since Rey Ordonez in 1997-99, and the first Phillies player to win three consecutive Gold Gloves at any position since Mike Schmidt won nine consecutive at third base from 1976-84. He also is the fifth Phillies player to win at least three Gold Gloves, joining Schmidt (10), Garry Maddox (eight), Manny Trillo (three) and Scott Rolen (three).

Victorino is the first Phillies outfielder to win consecutive Gold Glove since Maddox won eight consecutive from 1975-82.

Rollins led the Majors with a .990 fielding percentage. He committed just six errors, which were fewest in baseball amongst qualifying players. He ranked second in the league in games (152) and innings (1364 2/3), fourth in putouts (212), sixth in total chances (607) and assists (389) and eighth in double plays (72). His career .983 fielding percentage is the second best in baseball history. Only Omar Vizquel is better with a .985 fielding percentage.

Victorino had a .997 fielding percentage, which was the second best in the National League amongst outfielders. He committed just one error. He ranked sixth with 336 putouts. He ranked tied for fifth amongst centerfielders with eight assists.


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Condradulations to Shane and JRoll, Have they caught the guy who stole Chase’s Gold glove yet? All in all, not a bad list of winners this year, though

Well, Jeter got one in the American League. He’s the worst fielding shortstop in the majors, let alone the AL. Has the range of a filing cabinet and statistically doesn’t make the cut. But, he has a reputation, and that’s what the Gold Glove Awards are all about.
If you have the energy, you can read this:

Dave Concepcion used to win them back when Bowa was setting records for fewest errors. He won 5 between ’74 and ’79. He made 30 errors in 1974 and 27 in ’76 and ’79.
In fact, Bowa took to calling him “Elmer” because he’d look at the box score and it would say E Concepcion, so he figured his name was Elmer.
Then, they gave Abreu one, and I lost respect for the award. Like the Grammy’s, it’s a sham of a farce, and a popularity contest. It’s nice to see that Jimmy and Shane are popular, and I don’t doubt their abilities, but Beltran is a better CF and Jack Wilson is a better SS.

Let the screaming begin.

WHile in no way arguing that the GG’s aren’t a joke, they are, errors by themselves aren’t an indicator of fielding ability. Rollins, who gets to many balls other SS don’t may get an error when he throws the ball into the stands. However, other ss don’t get to the ball so there’s no error.

I know that there are a few stats out there that deal with fielding, but unfortunately, non of them are A) easily figured by the layman and B) really indicate not only range, and arm, but basic fielding skills (remember how many bare-handed Schmidt used to make? How many of those great loooking plays were handled routinely by other 3rd basemen?

All in all, I don’t see any ridiculous names listed as winners in the NL this year. More jmportantly, who gets ROY??

I think Brooks Robinson may have been a bit better at 3rd, but no, that was not my intention, but rather to say that some players make a play look hard while another makes it look easy. Who’s the better fielder? While Gold Glove is an award players shold be proud to get, there needs to be a way of determining who is the actual best fielder in each posistion.

Jeter got a gold glove? Wow. That’s ridiculous. There are a half dozen better fielding shortstops in the AL. And Larry Bowa was light years better defensively than ‘Elmer’ Concepcion. Concepcion got them because he was on the Big Red Machine, and had to play defense next to Pete Rose for about 4 years.
f-i-j, are you insinuating that there were other third basemen who made plays look easier than Mike Schmidt? That is a ridiculous statement. Did you ever see him play? Mike Schmidt was the smoothest third baseman in the history of the game. You boggle my mind sometimes.

Phan, we agree it seems (there is a G-d after all). However, as a simple run of the mill fan, how can you determine who is the best at any posisition? It’s not like the best hitter where to take Ave, or OBP, or SLG or what ever and there’s a clear player. What’s better, range and not great zone or great zone but not much range?

Brooks Robinson was the best third baseman who ever played the game. Schmidt was the smoothest, making every play look easy. Then there are guys like Craig Nettles who got notoriety because he had to dive for everything and made it look spectacular when, in reality, he lacked the range of those other guys.
There are plenty of ways to determine the best fielder, and errors isn’t it. There are ‘range factors’ which help determine who gets to more balls. Jeter has a high ‘zone factor’, which means that he makes the plays he is expected to make. But his ‘range factor’ is the worst among regular SS’s in the AL. The Yankees are the only team in the AL with less than 400 assists from the SS position, and they are last in chances. He’s not even the best SS on his own team. A-Rod was the best SS in the AL, but he had to defer to the Yankees captain when he came there. Jeter is a lock first-ballot HOFer, but he’s not close to being a GG, especially at this stage of his career.
And I’m happy for JRoll, but Tulowitzki is the best SS in the NL.

I’m getting tired of answers apearing before the questions. People will begin to think I’m a prophet or something….lol

so phan, if I understand you correctly, Player X who has normal range, but makes 5 errors all year long is not as good a fielder as player Y who has great range, but has the tendency to throw the ball into the stands on routine plays as well as boot the ball every now and then when roaming 12 miles out of his zone.

Is this basically what you’re saying?

Zone factor counts for something. The player makes all the routine plays and minimizes runners-on-base on the routine plays. But I think range factor counts for more, then combining that with a solid zone factor can pretty much establish the better player. A guy with a higher range factor might have more errors, but they are errors on plays the the guy with a lower range factor never would make anyway.
Tulowitzki and Aybar are probably the best SS’s respectively in the NL and AL.

World F-ing Champs

f-i-j, it really isn’t worth talking to you about things, with your tendency to exaggerate every point people try to make. Bottom line, you can have Jeter’s everyday defense and I’ll take Aybar’s. I’ll beat you every day.

I’ll take Rollins defense over anyones any day (unless Bowa is playing like he did in the late ’70’s early 80’s). You can have Jeter and Aybar

Guess I’ll say it first, since Todd hasn’t posted anything……

Congrats to Chase, on his 4th straight Silver Slugger award!

I guess Todd’s on a well deserved vacation. Or maybe he’s covering the winter meetings. Anyway…….

I’m still a little ticked that Chase didn’t win a Gold Glove. Especially since most sports analysts agree. So I put together a little scenario for next season…………

Chase wins Gold Glove, Silver Slugger, NL MVP, and WS MVP; by hitting a walk-off grand slam on a 3-2 count, with 2 outs, at Home, in game 4, to sweep the Yanks!

I guess a case could be made for both Ibanez and Werth over Kemp and Ethier for a silver slugger, although it would be quibbling. They are all about the same. But Ethier is even worse than Howard against lefthanders, much worse than Werth is against righties. Kind of one-dimensional in that respect, IMO.
If Ibanez hadn’t gotten hurt he would have been a lock but, it is what it is. Congrats, Chase.

Norma: love your scenario for Chase “You are the Man” Utley! Hope you’re as good a fortune teller as J-Roll (although his latest prediction didn’t work out).

It’s a shame that Howard has to compete with Pujols otherwise he might have had a Silver Slugger also. Hope Happ brings home ROY.

I had the great pleasure of spending an afternoon with Brooks Robinson, and someone posed the question of whether he or Schmidt was the “greatest third baseman ever” and he graciously replied that he thought Pie Traynor was the best ever.
Sadly, Gold Glove awards and other such individual awards are subjective based on what people see.
If you look over the list of outfielders who won in 2009, you’ll see that speed wins over anything. Guys like Shane, Hunter and Suzuki won because they can run down fly balls to the wall. But does that really make them better outfielders? In my opinion, great catches are often the result of misjudging a ball, and the dive is a result. That’s where Victorino and Adam Jones come in. Managers (the voters) see great plays and it sticks in their minds.

And it seems as though tcd133 is going to emerge every so often to remind us that the Yankees are the league champions. OK then.

No matter how often tcd133 logs in to remind us about the Yankees, he’s still a putz who doesn’t know anything about baseball. Probably the reason he never posts anything on the Yankees blog.

If running down balls to the wall does not define an outfielder, what does? The ball is caught, it is an out. What more is involved? What more is involved, an occasional assist?

Rollins is still an arogant idiot! Who should have been run out of this town the first 2 or 3 times he insulted Philthies fans! He would never make it in NY where the fans don’t forget! He needs to take some lessons from Utley on how to have some class!

Oh, and Jeter is not only a better SS than Rollins, but is also a better person with some class. That’s something Rollins never had and probably never will. Good thing a players character doesn’t come into play for the GG awards! And if Ibanez can get back to juicing the Philthies will be set for 2010!

Ibanez was never hurt. They put him on the DL so he couldn’t be tested when the league suspected he was juicing. He then came back clean and what did he do then?

tcmatrix If there was any doubt about you being an idiot it is now removed with your aspersion about Ibanez. Do you really believe drug testing can be evaded by going on the DL? You are p-i-s-s-e-d because Ibanez did not sign with the Mets. Imagine if he had. Even with his stint on the DL, he would have led them in all offensive categories except for average. This coming season. he will probably do it again.

Fact: Derek Jeter is the weakest fielding SS in ML baseball. Since when is the GG a lifetime achievement award?

pherris: The GG awards are all about running balls down at the wall. How else to explain Shane, Adam Jones, Suzuki winning? Managers vote and they remember guys taking runs off the board. Meanwhile, guys who play a steady OF get screwed.

phan52: The GG is all about lifetime achievement. That’s why it’s so hard to lose one once you win one. It’s a subjective award, and cannot be measured by statistics, so certain guys win without reason, like Jeter.

tcmatrix: I’m going to pretend you didn’t say Jeter was a better SS than Rollins.

muleman Sure it is about running down balls at the wall. But are you suggesting that any of the guys you mention do not play a steady outfield in addition to running down balls at the wall? What exactly is your criteria for a GG outfielder?

I’m saying that it’s more than just speed. Many great catches are the result of misjudging balls and reaction by speed. I think Bill James’ site (that I posted earlier) gives greater credence than some subjective viewpoint of a manager who has something to lose by an OF making a great catch.
I think there is more to being a great fielder than making spectacular plays, because the great plays make it onto Sports Center and the routine ones don’t.
I’d have much rather have Bowa as my everyday SS than Conception because he made every play. Guys like Jeter make it onto the highlight reel but how do they do on a regular basis?

Jeter hasn’t made a highlight reel because of his skills in years. Sometimes he makes a play charging a ball in the infield, but the only reason he can make those plays is because he has to play so shallow. If he played back in a normal SS position, he would never make a play. He can’t get to anything to his right or left.
He is a heady player who takes advantage of baserunning mistakes like the one against Abreu in the ALCS, but that was more on Abreu’s stupid baserunning than anything Jeter did.

No, please don’t pretend I didn’t say Jeter was a better SS than Rollins! Please! It is 100% true that Jeter is a better all around player than Rollins and a better fielder and a better human! Rollins is a joke and is the T.O. of baseball! He opens his mouth just to put his foot in it! Take the Yanks in 5 he said!!! LOL!!!

Rollins rips the city and his own fans on a regular basis and you can just sit there and take it? Wow, nothing like having his sheep follow him to the end no matter what he says or does! Now I can see why we in Philly are ranked amongst the bottom of the education rhelm and the top of the violent crimes and homocides in the entire country! People wll just follow him right off a cliff because the lack of brains to know you are being insulted by the guy who wears your uni! Nice. LOL!!!

By every statistical analysis, Derek Jeter is the worst fielding shortstop in MLB, and has been for a while. Here are the results from 2006-2008 compiled by the Fielding Bible, and the second link is how they come up with the results. Jeter falls so far short he is almost off the charts. Great player,with huge intangibles, but a GG is beyond laughable.

It may be interesting to note that between 1961 and 1966, Clete Boyer had a better range factor in each of those seasons than did Brooks Robinson. While one’s range factor is affected by many variables over the course of a season which in turn can create a misleading single season comparison of two players, a six season stretch of superior range factor ratings definately does indicate that Boyer had better overall range than Robinson. Robinson who was slightly more acrobatic had a slight edge in making diving stops, but Boyer’s superior foot speed gave him considerably better range on balls hit toward the hole between third and short. Boyer had a much better arm. Robinson was moved from second base to third because of insufficient range at second. Boyer had the range to play well at shortstop (his original position). In spite of all this, Robinson got the Gold Glove awards for those seasons.

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