Early Returns on Lee Trade Not Good

Roy Oswalt has pitched so well for the Phillies that I haven’t heard anybody complain about the Cliff Lee trade lately.

(Thank God.)

But there was some interesting news yesterday regarding the Lee trade. Right-hander J.C. Ramirez, one of three players the Phillies received from Seattle for Lee, had surgery on his right hip last week. He is expected to be ready by Spring Training, but it capped a bad first year for the three prospects.

The Phillies demoted right-hander Phillippe Aumont, 21, from Double-A Reading (1-6, 7.43 ERA in 11 starts) to Single-A Clearwater (2-5, 4.48 ERA in 16 appearances). Outfielder Tyson Gillies, 21, missed most of the season with Reading (.238, two homers, six RBIs in 26 games) because of a hamstring injury, but that was the least of his problems. Pinellas County Sheriff’s officers arrested him last month for cocaine possession, which is a felony. He pleaded not guilty.

Ramirez, 22, had the best year of the three. He went 4-3 with a 4.06 ERA in 11 starts in Clearwater, and 3-4 with a 5.45 ERA in 13 starts in Reading.

“They’re all still 21 years old,” Ruben Amaro Jr. said. “We’ve got a long way to go on them. We still view them as strong prospects for us. We’ll see how they develop.”

The Phillies converted Aumont from a reliever to a starter and changed his mechanics in Spring Training, which they attributed to his struggles. They are not sure if his future is in the rotation or the bullpen, although he remains a starter for now. They have said the same about Ramirez.

“The guys are still very young and it takes a lot of time for guys to develop sometimes,” Amaro said.

Of course, Gillies has drawn the most scrutiny after his arrest.

Amaro said Gillies is allowed to play for the Phillies while his legal issues are unresolved. He also said Gillies enjoys a clean slate once his issues are resolved and is unlikely to receive any punitive action.

“I still believe in him as a quality prospect,” he said.

But what about his character?

“As far as that stuff is concerned, other than what he’s been accused of, we don’t have any reason to (question) his character,” Amaro said. “He’s been a good kid. He’s a quality kid. Whether he has an issue or a problem, that’ll be up to the legal system. Any issues or personal matters that he has to deal with, if there is a problem, I’ll tell him to take care of it.”

Gillies remains in Clearwater rehabbing his injured hamstring. Because of the injury, he basically lost an entire year of development.

“It hurts,” Amaro said. “We would like the guy on the field. It’s kind of an incomplete grade for the guy. He’s got a lot of ability. We like him.”

But so far the early returns on the Lee trade are not good.


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Kyle Drabek had nothing to do with the Cliff Lee trade. If you keep Drabek, you don’t get Roy Halladay for the next 3-4 years.
The results of the Cliff Lee trade won’t be known for years.

But so far the early returns on the Lee trade are not good.

Really?? Ya think??
NO ONE except maybe Ruben thought that trading Lee was a good idea. He traded Lee and then ended up trading HAPP for Oswalt!! Just so stupid. Phillies would still be in contention with Halliday, Lee and Hamels AND have Happ as their #4 or #5 .

But so far the early returns on the Lee trade are not good.

Really?? Ya think??
NO ONE except maybe Ruben thought that trading Lee was a good idea. He traded Lee and then ended up trading HAPP for Oswalt!! Just so stupid. Phillies would still be in contention with Halliday, Lee and Hamels AND have Happ as their #4 or #5 .

Meanwhile, starting tonight in Baltimore for the Toronto Blue Jays, Kyle Drabek. For the New Hampshire Fisher Cats (http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=475138) he was 14-9, 2.94, 132K in 162 IP, WHIP 1.2

Looks like I must be getting to old Phan 52. He is now trying to get me to go to other web sites or try to get me pressured by our website. Too bad Phan, I’m here to stay. I like you guys, you make silly arguments that are easy to undermine.

“26,954 in the middle of a pennant race in September? I think that proves everything.
BTW, Maybe you guys should make sure that billreef doeesn’t decide to troll the SF and Rockies boards now. Since he’s been trolling the Philly boards the Phillies have made up about 9 games on the Braves. Keep it up and Bobby Cox will have get an earlier start to his retirement in the first week of October.
By phan52 on September 15, 2010 11:22 AM”

Cliff Lee is a bad apple, his personality is what got him traded. He can pitch like an ACE but when your attitude sucks it doesn’t matter, i for one am happy that he is no longer here. I love the Rotation we have Roy, Cole, Roy thanks see you in the World Series. With Lee we would have issues with his attitude and his back no thanks. Just ask the Rangers.

chasesgal must be channeling pherrisphain, as apparently nothing can make him happy. Leading the NL East? Bah… The best record in the NL? Meh… The best rotation in the NL, maybe even in MLB? Not good enough.
I’m not gonna knock Cliff Lee because he is very good, but the bottom line is that he will be pitching elsewhere going forward and we have Halladay, Hamels and Oswalt (if he decides to not retire after next season) for at least two more years, and maybe more. Geez, try to enjoy it.

chasesgal, we would have had Lee for a year before he went off to collect his 100 million dollar contract from the Yankees. Having Halladay and Lee together beyond 2010 was never anything more than a pipe dream. So sure, the rotation this year would have looked good, but what about 2011? Would you rather have Halladay/Oswalt/Hamels/Blanton/whoever wins the #5 next year, or Halladay/Hamels/Happ/ and two question marks at #4 (Blanton probably wouldn’t have gotten his 3yr deal and would likely be gone in FA, if he wasn’t already traded for peanuts) and #5?

Todd, your thankful no one has mentioned the Lee trade lately then proceed to stir the pot.

By the way young Happ is now 6-2 with a 2.78 ERA.

The Lee discussion never goes away. It is just puzzling to look at what the Mariners got from the Rangers for a half season of Lee (although Smoak is currently struggling) compared to what the Phils got for a full season. Only time will tell how bad of a trade this turns out to be.

Yeah, yeah, the Lee trade looks terrible, let’s put that aside until the offseason and talk about what really matters right now, which is that the Braves lost 2 out of 3 to the Nats and are playing themselves out of contention! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Young Happ got slapped around a little by the Brewers today and his ERA rose to 3.24. That’ll happen, considering the # of innings he’s pitched and he’s generally pitched very well. Not close to 6-1 and 1.98 though.
It looks like he Braves are doing their best Mets-in-September impersonation.

phan52 WTF nothing can make me happy? Where is that coming from?

All those trades have to be looked at within their contexts. The Phils initially gave Lee an offer that must have been close to the one they ended up giving to Halladay, but Lee, or his agent, held out for a bigger payday. After the door gets slammed on his face, he acts all hurt and bewilder that such a thing could really have happened to him. After all, who wouldn’t be willing to pay top-dollar to acquire the great Cliff Lee? In spring training, Lee (then with the Mariners) purposely retaliated against the D-Back’s catcher by throwing a 95 mph fastball at his head. When I found out that he did that, I thanked God that the Phils had Halladay and not Lee. Character matters more to me (and to the Phils) than winning. With Doc, the Phils get both. Cliff Lee is just like Adam Wainwright, a guy with great, unhittable stuff, but with a cocky attitude, way too much pride, and always looking out for number one.

Drabek’s line for the night.

6 IP 9 H 3 R 3 ER 3 BB 5 SO 88-53 P-S 4.50 ERA

He leaves down 3-1.

Wonder where that Brave’s fan is now? 3 up with 15 to go… the object now is to wrap this up early enough so we can arrange the rottion for the post season and not for the final 3 games in Atlanta. I’d love to pitch 3 rookies in that series

erichh1: I like your posts.

erich1….remember, all of the s-h-i-t hit the fan after Lee had been traded so all the “he said” – “she said” accusations occurred after this fact. So you believe who you want to believe. But the chronology as I recall it was Junior declaring the Phillies where not going to be able to sign Lee after he had already been traded and Junior’s CYA line to the effect that the Phillies “needed to restock the farm system meme” was also born. Within a a day or two, Lee’s agent more or less called out Junior on his BS by explaining the negotiations consisted of the Phillies making an offer then trading Lee before a counter offer was even made by Lee or his agent, an accusation not denied by either the Phillies or Junior. Of course many of the mental midgets here had already bought, hook, line and sinker, the “restocking the farm system” meme to rationalize the smoke screen that Lee was unsignable and their own gut feeling that Junior and the Phillies had just gotten hosed. The subsequent acquisitions of Halladay and Oswalt do not ameliorate one whit what a bone head move and fiasco the Phillies dealing with Lee have proven to be.

Pherris: I believe the actual sequence of events was 1) agreement to trade for Halladay 2) trade of Lee to Seatle 3) Rube invents excuses why he couldn’t have a rotation of Halladay, Lee, Hamels

However, as it worked out, it was for the best. I’d rather have Oswalt for 2-3 years then Lee for one (and I admit I was against the Oswalt trade when it happened and have been proven wrong, which is why Rube is the GM and I’m not)

I’d love to see the Phillies wrap this up this week and be able to set their rotation for playoffs and give some guys a bit of rest

fij…………..The trade of Lee and the trade for Halladay officially occurred on the same day, December 16, 2009. But any sequence had to have started with Junior inventing excuses. I feel sorry for his daughters as I imagine he runs his BS lines by them in the morning while they are trying to get ready for school.

pherris, you and I differ in our opinions because I choose to believe Ruben’s account of the events and you choose to believe Lee’s and/or his agent’s. So be it. No one has ever succeeded in changing your mind, so just keep hating Ruben and when the next WSC Victory Parade comes, you can throw things at him when he goes by you.

erich1……….If memory serves me correctly, you are some kind of bible thumper and as such you are no doubt inclined to believe ******** both large and small especially from what you perceive to be authority figures. No doubt there is not a fairy tale you haven’t bought into along the short line of your life. WWJS? He would say that what you do while you are in your closet supposedly praying does not quite meet the definition of what he had in mind when talking about the virtues of self-flagellation.

Cliff Lee wants Sabathia money and has said as much. He probably won’t get it, but he is going to get a hell of a lot more than Halladay and Oswalt, particularly the number of years. The Phillies don’t like to extend or pay pitchers for more than three years and that’s an excellent policy. The fact that the Phillies can control Halladay, Hamels, Oswalt and Blanton through 2012 is huge, while somebody is going to sign Lee to a ridiculous contract through at least 2015 or more. He’ll break down before that. Look what’s happening to the Mets with Santana and Rodriguez. Very few long term pitcher contracts work out.

pherris: “bible thumper”….really?! What does someone’s religious/spiritual beliefs have to do with a baseball discussion? I don’t appreciate your comments at all and it appears most other people on this blog do not either.

libertybelle…..And, exactly how do you know what most others “appearing” on this blog think? Of course you don’t know, you silly girl? But it does show you are as adept at making up s-h-i-t as well as “many” others on this blog.

libertybelle is very perceptive, while it appears that the blog misfit isn’t.

phan52 well we now know that libertybelle and you are among those “most” who don’t appreciate my comments here. But then again, reading what you typically spew here it is evident that you believe you are this blog. You are forever quoting either some statistic or the opinion of someone else which you have read elsewhere but I am still waiting for you to exhibit some original thought. I realize that someone of your station in life and limited capabilities will never be able to obtain information from a primary source but at least you could provide some semi-original ideas through the synthesis of the material upon which you rely. Besides I thought you would be proud of my adoption of the motto of the phan52 school of baseball knowledge, to wit: I can’t dazzle them with brilliance but I can baffle them with b-u-l-l-s-h-i-t.

You’re a regular Billy Flynn, aren’t you pherris? …razzle, dazzle.

I can’t help it if you decide to show your ignorance about baseball on what is a baseball blog. Your problem, not mine.

You can’t help if you intrude yourself into every post I make whether or not I am talking to you or not? That is what I am talking about. You think this blog is the phan52 blog. Then like a little valley girl standing with one hand on hip, weigh to one side, you offer the best you got, “Whatever!”.

Damn Pherris, even Phillies Phans don’t like you. I’m starting to gain a new appreciation for the PhaithPhul.

billybobreefer …..can’t say that we missed you. Ahhh, those are the girliemen and manlygirl variety. You hicks should be able to relate to them. It just goes to show that some southerners with able to slip through immigration one way or the other when they wanted to come to the United States. But I can understand how when you were young you became confused when told your momma is your aunt and your daddy is your granddaddy. When you think of the dilemma of your youth keep phan52 in mind.

You know Pherris sounds lot like Phallus. I wonder if that’s just a little filly Freudian slip. Maybe the reason you like baseball is all those boys with their big sticks. I mean everyone else here talks about the game and the players and you just talk about sexual preferences and interfamily relationships. You know sometimes that thing you obsess about is what you are. Kinda like that Senator tapping his foot in a Minneapolis public restroom who assured us all that he “wasn’t gay and had never been gay”. Hmmmmmm……

billybobbiereefer……Such biting repartee. Notice the allusion in the first sentence of your last post. But do me a favor, the next time you are at church, right after you have thumped your bible, charmed the snakes, and spoken in some tongue or another, but before you have cinched up your magic underwear, say a little prayer for me.

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