Revere Gets Break, Should Hit Eighth Upon Return

Russell Martin, Ben RevereI offered my Phillies lineup a few times in Spring Training and always had Ben Revere hitting eighth, even without Carlos Ruiz and Delmon Young available. People thought I was crazy.

He hit .294 last season!

He has so much speed!

But Revere also has ZERO power. He had 150 hits last season, just 19 extra-base hits and no home runs. He does not get on base unless he is hitting. He averaged 3.61 pitches per plate appearance last year, which ranked 121st out of 144 qualifying players in baseball. In comparison, Jimmy Rollins averaged 3.70, which ranked 100th. I found it ironic that fans tired of Rollins’ impatience at the plate begged Charlie Manuel to have somebody with even less patience hit leadoff.

I asked Twins manager Ron Gardenhire in Spring Training about Revere. He said, “He’s a .300 hitter. He didn’t walk a lot. He didn’t take a lot of pitches. But the kid can put the barrel on it. He finds different ways to get on, whether it’s dropping a drag bunt, he outruns balls. The walks … I think as he gets more experience, he’ll probably learn to take a few more pitches here and there. And if they ask him to do that, Ben can do that. But Ben likes to swing.”

Revere is not starting today’s series finale against the Pirates. It is the first game he has not started this season. He is hitting .207 with one triple, four RBIs, five stolen bases, four walks and 14 strikeouts. His 53 ground balls and 7.57 ground ball-to-fly ball ratio lead baseball. He has had enormous difficulty getting the ball out of the infield. Manuel will never take my advice when it comes to the lineup — he has Chase Utley and Ryan Howard hitting back-to-back against Pirates right-hander James McDonald today, making things easy for Pirates manager Clint Hurdle late in the game — but when Revere returns he should hit eighth, especially with Ruiz in the lineup beginning Sunday. It shouldn’t even be a question in his mind. If Revere gets on base he can try to make things happen from that spot. But with the rest of the personnel at Manuel’s disposal it doesn’t make sense to hit him higher.

Here’s my lineup, against both righties and lefties (with Ruiz and Young):

  1. Jimmy Rolllins, SS
  2. Chase Utley, 2B
  3. Michael Young, 3B
  4. Ryan Howard, 1B
  5. Delmon Young, RF
  6. Carlos Ruiz, C
  7. Domonic Brown/John Mayberry Jr., LF
  8. Ben Revere, CF


The Batting Instructors have to get with him and correct his problems because he has a few. His stance alone jams him up. H e hasn’t any power at all and if he plans on staying in baseball he better listen and start getting on base.

The Phillies outfield would rank as about the 7th best in the International League. Really.

Are you concerned about Michael Young hitting into double plays?

Putting him third, and at his current pace (I think 7 GIDP?) would make me sweat with every one out base runner in the first.

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The way the guy holds the bat and launches his swing is a disaster. He’s not generating anything from his lower half. He swings like a Little Leaguer.

Watching Revere hit is like reliving my last season in the Delco league……SAD!

So putting the guy who led the majors last year in infield fly outs by a large margin is the answer? No, the best person for leading off on the team is Freddy Galvis or Revere. Now imagine the lineup if the Phillies hadn’t overpaid J-Roll and just let him go.

Pence – traded because they couldn’t afford him

MUCH more potent lineup..

Rollins has a career .328 OBP. Revere’s is .313. Main job of the leadoff guy is to get on base. Rollins gets on base more often. I also wouldn’t get rid of a multi Gold Glove winning shortstop (lest we forget he won one last year) for an unproven rookie. Did they overpay? Maybe. Should have the gotten rid of him completely? Certainly not.

.313 vs. .328 OBP is a difference of 1.5%. Is that enough to warrant a strong argument based on OBP?
That’s about 7 times on base over 500 plate appearances – or about once a month during the season. You’ll have to provide a stronger case.

Rollins has a .328 OBP over 8331 PA. Revere has 1157. So Rollins has a higher OBP in nearly 8 times as many plate appearances. Revere’s lifetime SLG is .315 while Rollins’ is 431. Revere may be fast but his SLG shows that he doesn’t get a lot of extra base hits. Jimmy’s walk rate is higher by 2 percentage points. Revere has 20 GIDP and Rollins has 104. Project Revere out to 8000 PA and you’re coming in around 140-160 GIDP. About the only offensive statistics that Revere has over Rollins is BABIP and K rate. Last year Rollins was good for 4.8 WAR while Revere came in at 3.1. I can keep going if you want me to.

OBP is an average based on performance. It doesn’t matter how many plate appearances a guy has. Dope.

I’m aware of how OBP works. My point was that his sample size is larger. Good response though – seems like you put a lot of thought into it…

Please don’t be discouraged. RationalPhan is to this blog what Raymond Babbitt was to “Rainman”. But rather than the ability to count toothpicks, his forte is arrogance.

Honestly Revere does not look like a starter at all eighth or first. If they continue to use him like his presence is etched in stone they continue to prove how inept the management is top to bottom.

I absolutely agree about splitting up the lefties…squandering our window of dominance via the postseason failures of this strategy is sad indeed. Yet, the GM does nothing to solve it by picking up the appropriate hitter, and the manager doesn’t use the best candidate for the job that he happens to have.

Though Howard did hit a homer off a lefty last night he should be benched against left-handers. Look at the stats…should your cleanup hitter be batting .111 with next to no homers? He has proven that he cannot hit lefties over a large sample size spending a number of years. What’s that definition of insanity again…?

And to think, the Phillies gave up a starting pitcher and a top prospect for a player who seems to be qualified as a late inning defensive replacement only. And to add insult to injury, Ruin signs and overpays Adams, the guy who was suppose to correct the Phillies eighth inning problems. I can count at least three games where Adams has blown it.

pherris, i made my comment before reading your post, but we agree on the fact that revere does not have major league offensive talent at all.

So, we can now verify that you can count to three. Valuable knowledge.

Little bit above you pay grade. Isn’t it?

FORGET about making up your silly little lineups. no lineup in the world will help these bums. one of the reasons they are going to lose over 90 games this year is because they have this little punch and judy hitter (revere) in the lineup in the first place. revere is nothing more than a late inning defensive replacement on most teams. the guy has less power than juan pierre if that is possible and will get on base less time than good old juan.

Great news – no drop off in production with Carrera in there.

I think Benny may be feeling the pressure to perform playing for a Big Market team like the Phils. I’m sure the Twin fans were polite and forgiving, since their team wasn’t very good last year anyway. I hope he can stop pressing and do whatever he used to do to get on base. It was NEVER pretty anyway.

What a pitching performance by Kyle Kendrick!!! Just what the Phils needed. It was also the only way he could guarantee that the pen would blow another quality start from a starter.

………EDIT: “guarantee the pen would NOT blow another quality start” that is….
krappe like this is why I hate to post here. Is it too much to ask for an editing function? The boards under the articles all have them. Here, if you make one mistake, you’re pretty much screwed and look like a moron……….

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